What is METALCORE?

*Share your thoughts below!*

Whoever the brave soul was that posted the Tool straight after that post I salute you.

"We're not gatekeeping" *continues to gatekeep*

Core is love, core is life.

As a teenager in the 90s, we had the same issue with "punk rock"

The sooner you realise genres don't matter, the more you will enjoy music.

This is why I just listen to the music and not get too technical with what genre is which because then I'll just get confused. I'm not familiar with most of these core sub genres but I'm pretty sure I've listened to at least one song without realizing it.

Why is Darko the banner when they're more of a Deathcore band?
Also, glad to see Nik call Vore a Blackgaze song. I was thinking the same thing.

0:09 “Lizzo is Vessel” whoever said that in chat is amazing 😂

Metalcore has come a long way - from ACTUAL metal + hardcore(Converge), to melodic death metal(Killswitch Engage, As I Lay Dying, Bullet For My Valentine,sort of), to 000's with catchy choruses and electronics (Asking Alexandria, Attack Attack!, Crown The Empire, etc.), to a literal buzzword. Now, That's The Spirit! 👍

My problem with removing everything non-metalcore, even tho those specific bands used to play metalcore and their new stuff still has metalcore influences, is that I found a lot of those bands through this subreddit. I wouldn’t have discovered bad omens if it wasn’t for this subreddit and they’re now one of my favorite bands even though I joined r/metalcore for bands like INK, killswitch, BFMV, MIW, unearth, Underoath, etc etc. Limiting the Reddit to pure metalcore also limits peoples discoverability for new music with similar sounds. There is no other subreddit on this platform that is as active that posts THAT kind of music because it’s either too heavy or not popular enough. Even that big thread defining metalcore couldn’t identify what the name of these genres are because they don’t really exist they’re just sub genres of METALCORE. It feels super gatekeep-ey and feels like old head mentality

Metal core in the future is going to be like spirit box and North Lane mixing a little bit of growls and The matrix style electronica. 😎🤘🎸

Bad Omens just dropped an entire ALBUM of isolated vocals… makes for some banger cover ideas

Not sure how any of these über specific labels help anyone or anything. I try to keep my metal bucket as large as possible and just take in good music. Your channel has been great at highlighting tons of different types of metal and has made my taste in music grow far beyond the old school metalcore of the 2000s I grew up on

As someone who listens to a wide variety of metal music in general, it's damn near impossible to pick a single genre. That's why I classify everything from one perspective, which is my own taste in metal/core.

As a sixty year old
who heard Napalm Death
as a hardcore punk band
in the late 1980s
and have been out of the the scene
since 1995
when I focused more on classical music
especially from the 20th century.
I returned to these areas of music
when I encountered Electric Callboy
and wanted to know more about
how they describe themselves
and met a barrage of terms
I didn't know

I remember when Headbanger's Ball came back on in the early 2000s, I was introduced to all good newer metalcore bands of that era, and at that time I was in college and just came off the whole nu-metal era that existed when I went to high school. Believe it or not a lot those nu-metal bands switched over to that more raw metalcore sound like 36 Crazyfists and Chimaira just to name a few. Any way great video, brings me back to a time in my life where I enjoyed this genre as well as others.

Metalcore
As I lay dying, unearth, August burns red , miss may I, killswitch engage, darkest hour, all that remains

There has to be some moderation on the sub, noone wants to see someone posting country or pop on it even if it would grow the subreddit. Finding that line between what is and isn't metalcore is hard and people are gonna get mad anyway, so they have to use their best judgement and listen to the community to moderate stuff, and to be on the same page I think having some ground rules is helpful. Anyway, I don't use reddit and the debate is kinda dumb imo, I'd much rather talk about bands and songs than (sub)genres

This segment would have highly benefited from Nik pre-reading the post and further clarifications that happened in the thread. Unfortunately, a lot of his contentions here directly result from him completely mininterpreting what the post was saying. For example, him getting upset about newer Bad Omens, Dayseeker, etc being called metalcore, when the post was actually suggesting the opposite.
To add some context, two major events preceded the creation of that post. The first was Bad Omens' latest album winning *metalcore* album of the year. Great record, definitely got some metalcore tracks on it, but it's generally agreed that it's pretty inaccurate to call it a metalcore album. The second was r/Hardcore invading the r/Metalcore subreddit for a few days with dozens of posts sharing classic hardcore/metalcore bands with FFO (for fans of) tags citing Dayseeker, Bad Omens, etc. The mods weren't on some ego trip with this post; the community made it clear that this was something they wanted the team to address.
And overall, none of this is that deep. The first viral post in the sub after this was unironically a Tool song. The community memes aren't going anywhere.

Gosh i'm so glad we just listen to - good music - on your twitch streams

I'm going to start a metalcore band named Gatekeeping.

I honestly get what they're trying to do here. A lot of places did a lot of gatekeeping to keep metalcore fans out. So places like r/metalcore started as a place where people could enjoy it. Now there's a lot of other stuff creeping in and there's a dilemma. On the one hand, they don't want to lose the forum they enjoy to people watering it down and making it about nothing. On the other hand, they should want to avoid being like the gatekeepers they fled from back in the day. Can you have your cake and eat it too?

A lot of subreddits have community votes to decide if a post fits. for example, some of the "cringe" subreddits have a poll in the comments where you decide "cringe" or "not cringe"
I feel like the metalcore subreddit could easily do this instead of trying to write the most vague explanation ever. Leave it up to the community to decide if they feel like something fits in their community. Have a poll in the comments!

This is 100% gatekeeping, but honestly if you really just can't handle r/metalcore wanting to be a metalcore subreddit, you just need to get off the internet.

Metalcore has become such an umbrella term and I feel like alot of bands are retroactively labeled metalcore. My favorite style of metalcore is Asking Alexandria adjacent metalcore

I got banned from the sub a while back because I ranted about them removing a song that I posted (think it was a While She Sleeps song, but not the one with Oli) even though they had a Ghost Inside song on the front page and were trying to say that TGI was more hardcore than metalcore. Glad to see that not much has changed and I haven’t missed anything.
Thanks for being a quality source of metalcore news, Nik. Much love, homie, stay corekid4lyfe

Idk bro its a specific redit about metalcore. Put post-hardcore in the post-hardcore redit.

I've seen some talk about Periphery not being metalcore on the sub, but I bet it'll be the talk of the day on Friday. Some will probably spam the mods with complaints citing this post or something, but they'll be ignored. Personally can't wait for the album.

I did not know about this subgenre, I mainly listened to heavy and power metal but this shit really slaps

Something I think's funny is back in maybe 2017, I tried posting The White Noise in r/metalcore and when I did it, it got removed and told me to post it in r/melodichardcore, then I posted it in that sub and it told me to post it in r/metalcore

I need the wail of existential pain @5:35 at the start of a killer breakdown.

9:29 They did it because the sub got homogenized to being mostly stuff that has the djents and the cleans, or the downtempos and the cleans, or the wee-woos and the cleans, and not much else.
For a genre that's supposedly the most diverse, the most popular stuff all sounds pretty similar.
But they've pretty much seemed to give up on the more rigid moderation so yeah.

I think this is a great compromise. I wouldn’t want to go to a sub called r/metalcore if a good chunk of the posts are just metalcore-adjacent. This way, bands that only make core songs every now and then get to have their stuff posted without their non-core songs also flooding the feed.

So basically, it MUST be 5, 7, 8 riffs, melodic choruses and breakdowns or get out lol.

I once posted a Sonic Syndicate song (either Jack of Diamonds or Burn This City) and it got taken down for being "too melodeath" when the band itself has become more core after Eden Fire (although it recent years they became a rock band).

I laughed so hard at Vore being considered Metalcore. Also, I disagree, it ain't a Blackgaze track either. It's definitely shoegaze-y but there's no black in there. And that's the thing; these crossover genres are very hard to define. Vore being metalcore but the rest of Sleep Token's catalogue not being metalcore just seems like one person's opinion.

So basically it's what the mod subjectively considers metalcore.
Just let the community discuss things in _and around_ the genre.

5:35
chino is that you

This just reminds me of how I really don't understand any of the genres. Like I can at least reasonably differentiate rap, country, and rock but drilling down deeper than that (metal, metalcore, death metal, deathcore, Wtf) and I'm just lost.

Metalcore hasn't changed. Metalcore is and always will be metal with hardcore influences. People who say metalcore has changed are wrong because, by definition, it cannot change. That's the whole point of a genre. It's a category in which something is listed. If a fantasy book series stops being fantasy and changes into sci-fi, it can longer be classified in the fantasy genre. If a metalcore band changes their sound and becomes more alt metal, they can no longer be classified as metalcore.
Architects, for example, are arguly no longer metalcore considering their last two records have not been so and they seem to continue to progress in that trajectory. Their new sound is akin to alt rock. Therefore, they should classified as such. This is the whole point of genres. Bands evolve, genres do not.
So yeah, bands like Bad Omens, Imminence, Spiritbox, Architects, Northlane, etc. They technically should not be allowed on r/metalcore as their arguably considered to be alternative rock and metal. They have little to no prominent hardcore elements in any of their music.

Shitting of spotify playlists and those rules at the same time is kinda hypocritical.

8:05 soundgarden is Grunge, like Nirvana..

metalcore is whatever is labelled metalcore. honestly its such a diverse subgenre.

The best thing I ever heard was this quote that forever kinda led me to how I like metal music in general...
"I don't want to preach, but I would like to see metal become more of a united thing. I'm tired of people breaking things down into categories like thrash metal and death metal. I think people tend to stick to one category, and I want people to support all kinds of bands, whether it be Slayer or Queensryche or Death. I miss the days when it was acceptable to listen to everything from Priest and Maiden to Slayer and Venom."
That quote is from Chuck Schuldiner. Many know him as the "Godfather of Death Metal" tho he disliked it and even said his own band, Death, is just a Metal Band.

Mite b most relatable NikNoc video yet
Much appreciated❤️

Silverstein isn’t Metalcore apparently when Bankrupt and It’s Over exists

All I am hearing is that you should be a the only mod for r/metalcore and you get to decide what metalcore is and is not.

IIRC, this post was made around the same time that people were sharing bands, both known and unknown, that fans would like (FFO) but being absolutely sarcastic and doing so for the memes. The reason why Sleep Token was used as an example on whether a song [by them] is Metalcore or not, is because I believe that was what triggered everything (I think it was when Vore was released). When Vore or that other song before it was posted, it was a very controversial back and forth/agreeing and disagreeing debate on why ST isn't metalcore and so the posts [of FFO] were being poured upon, and the community was feeding into it by upvoting. I think the posts were getting blatant that the examples of what said band was similar to would have like DnB elements (ex: ABR [FFO Dubstep, womps, make you wanna take Molly]) EDIT: There's not a post like this, but posts were made with this mentality
This is what I remembered, but this post by the Mod[s] is way too overexaggerated and like Nik said, will probably hurt more than help the community.

I love Metalcore, and I love Black, Death, Thrash, Doom Metal, Goth and Industrial. Good music is good music regardless of genre. I hate gatekeeping and those that 'love' the genre, are actually the worst thing for our genre. More people need to listen to Heavy Music, then the world would be a better place

I mean, to me metalcores roots is late 90s stuff, and heavily based from Killswitch Engage. But if people don’t get the idea, I just reference bands instead. My metal core isn’t the same metal core as your metal core. I mean, to me, Adam D started it when he was in Aftershock. It’s like Hardcore and Deathcore banded together, and then adding the cleans and melodic riffs complete the metal core sound. I love the old 2000s era metalcore the most because I love how raw it is, but modern stuff like Spiritbox is like a nice Djent metal core that I love.

I label my music after "I like it", "I don't like it" and "meh".

First, there is really no such thing as just “Metalcore”, every metal band uses some sort of elements from other genres.
Second, it’s really hard for me to take r/metalcore serious anymore because of things like this. I got so much shit for posting Varials “.50” being told that “it’s not metalcore” yet I’ve seen Attila posts staying up with a lot of karma.
Third, they claim no gatekeeping is allowed yet that’s exactly what their doing with their rules.
I do find a lot of new music to listen to from reddit but i just stay away from posting because of shit like this.
Anyways… great video as always, Nik!!! 🤘🏼

I think genres should have a pretty rigid definition, or else why have one at all. What they should do is just turn the metalcore subreddit into the core subreddit cause that’s really what it is now

Metalcore is the same as the pop genre, both just have an insane amount of diversity add variety, that trying to set specific parameters for what is and isn't is nearly impossible

Loved your take on this Nik

I think it's a good thing that subgenres exist 'cause they're a pretty good guideline to newcomers. Discovering what bands they like ald finding other similar bands that'll help them become more familiar with the heavier music and harsh vocals.
That being said, we should care less about what bands belong to what subgenre and appreciate the music itself a lot more. It'd most likely help new bands break through more often.

when someone asks me what kind of music i listen to (and the other person is no metalhead, wich is 90% the case) i just say rock/metal because really nobody in the real world cares and knows all this subgenres.
i would say i listen to 80% to metalcore but i guess there are some people out there, they could find to every band i listen to a reason, why its not metalcore... its so stupid.
we all should be happy about EVERY song that has a guitar and drums in it, because our rock/metal universe is smal enough when you see what the mainstream listens to. there is no need to discuss what niche is what band and song, all rock/metal bands are niche :D

They could’ve literally changed the subreddit name to r/Scene and fixed all their problems

Metalcore is lifeeeee

"Alternative Metal bands include: ...Soundgarden"
Might as well throw Nirvana in there too, what even are genres anyway?

In recent years, my borders of term "metalcore" washed away so much, that I cannot define wich is and wich isn't, deathcore also sits in metalcore category for me.
It feels like that area of music should simply be called "CORE" music, nothing more, nothing less.

Metalcore as much as I don’t like it is a genre that’s always changing.
People thought bands like Machine Head, Biohazard, Hatebreed were Metalcore when the term first came about, as bands that straddle the line between Metal and Hardcore.
The reason why Metal and Hardcore got so blurred is because Thrash Metal and Hardcore Punk bands did gigs together in the 80’s, which gave birth to Crossover Thrash with bands like Suicidal Tendencies, DRI and SOD. Then you had the Beatdown and NYHC bands like Madball and Cro Mags being influenced by Metal.
Then you had bands like Helmet, Life Of Agony and Quicksand blurring the lines between Hardcore and Alternative Metal.
It wasn’t until bands like As I Lay Dying, Killswitch and Shadows Fall all came about that Metalcore actually had a sound and scene, with those bands being just as influenced by Swedish Melodic Death Metal like early In Flames, Soilwork and At The Gates just as much as Hardcore Punk.
I would say bands like As I Lay Dying, Killswitch and Shadows Fall are the true Metalcore sound and style.
Then things get complicated.
As by the mid to late 00’s Metalcore and Emo/Post Hardcore all becomes blurred with fucking awful bands like Bullet For My Valentine, early Avenged Sevenfold, Devil Wears Prada, Asking Alexandria, Attack Attack, Motionless In White etc etc.
Then you get My Space Era Deathcore with early Bring Me The Horizon, early Suicide Silence all blurring Deathcore with Post Hardcore/Screamo.
Then you get Djent with bands blurring Metalcore and Deathcore with Progy Djent stuff.
Then Nu-Metalcore becomes a thing with bands like My Ticket Home, Sylar, Dropout Kings, Issues, Dark Complex blurring Metalcore with Nu-Metal.
And now you’ve got all sorts of bands blurring Metalcore and Deathcore with all different sounds like Spiritbox, Lorna Shore, Erra, Loath, Slaughter To Prevail, etc etc.
Early on Metalcore had a simple influence of Melodic Death Metal by way of Hardcore Punk sound and style, then by the mid 00’s onwards Metalcore all becomes blurred with different sounds.
I just wonder what the original Metalcore fans that loved Shadows Fall and the like and then a few short years later seeing Asking Alexandria and Attack Attack show up, they must’ve been fucking mortified.

9:18 yeah I have no fucking Idea what mods were thinking with that post at all.

Lamb of God is Metalcore and you can’t change my mind on this

They do not consider Bad Omens as metalcore, but TDOPOM was in r/metalcore's AOTY list. 😆😆😆

The problem i have is that they talk about a song needing "significant metalcore elements" but I am honestly not sure what that means. What specifically is it within a song that makes something metalcore? Because if i look at their list for bands (PWD, As I Lay Dying, Killswitch Engage) those are three bands that honestly do not sound similar enough to me that i could confidently call them the same genre. How is this possibly enforceable? Maybe people will think I'm just an idiot for not being able to identify what makes something metalcore, but honestly I think thats the position of the average fan.

They are not gatekeeping enough. Bands like Killswitch Engage shouldn't be on the metalcore subreddit starting from the Howard Jones era.
If it has no link to hardcore, it shouldn't be on there.

lets see a what is noise or grindcore

Metal melodies/Hardcore breakdowns, rhythms.

You’re not core unless …. YOU LIVE HARDCOREEEEE!!! …. Crab people 🦀 😂

1:40 that chart is very unfinished even regarding just the subgenres. Post Hardcore, Mathcore, Death Core are the first three mising ones that come to my mind. So yeah, pretty big term.

I just recently got back into metal, after 20+ years. And I don't understand why chimara isn't talked about more. They are crazy dope

Always enjoyable to watch Nik lose it over stuff like this 😂

Core is everything I want to say but don't know how.

One thing is Metal elitist, but Metalcore elitist? That's some new weird sh*t I never expected 😂

My heart beats in breakdowns. l.o.l.

Nu Metal is a subgenre of Alternative Metal

I’ve yet to see something about r/metalcore that makes me want to ever visit it.

I really wanna make a 20 sec metalcore song and see if I can get posted.

Nik: makes a discourse that people shouldn't label what is and what isn't metalcore, and how metalcore is a large genre and anything can be metalcore
Also Nik: Why is Darko US here? They are not metalcore!

metalcore is this jurassic park you walk through the park seeing dinos the cute ones are soft and scream when they are angry or someone annoyed them and the badass ones like the t-rex scream permanently and sometimes do the soft living when having a good day to stabalize

Nik this doesn't make much sense you can't limit metalcore. Crazy

I'm one of the mods for r/metalcore! Some of us have been working to revive r/allcore for this exact purpose! Go check it out!

i didn't think a metalcore subreddit would aspire to be Encyclopaedia Metallum

Make r/niknocturnal and heal this world

Tool is both Alt and Prog? but everyone else can only be in one genre? seems legit

Someone should make an "r/metalcore_but_we_are_allowed_to_have_fun"

I like stuff that sounds more like classic than metal core than the new stiff

Humans have an inherent need to label, classify, and codify things. Sometimes (usually), it gets out of hand. The *core sub-genres of metal is a perfect example.

NikNocturnal.exe has stopped working

thnx for this man, i was so triggered. I hope this vid makes a difference...also....dayseeker really was metalcore in the beginning

And this is why the metal scene gets shit on so badly...because things like this Reddit take shit too seriously.

(laughs in Encyclopaedia Metallum)

guitar "rifts"

You should become a mod on the subreddit and stream interacting with it once a week or something

First thing, you are awesome and I realy love your videos.
but I dont know man....
Years ago I left the labeling of a band or a song as one specific genre for the gatekeepers.
When I listen to a new band\song, if I like it goes to my playlist and no matter if its grind core, old core, metal core, etc.
Bands today change their style or combining styles all the time, even within the song (you said it yourself). So setting rules in reddit feels a bit stupid and actually shuts off great new and old music.

I would think r/metal is the most important since they cover all sub genres.

Let's make a modern metal subreddit where we can post whatever we want :0

Ahh watching this makes me feel much much better about myself, now that I know even the the mods of r/Metalcore don't know what makes a piece of music metalcore