(TL;DR Through Analysis) This anime is actually a really good adaptation so far, they are just rearranging things and removing the pointless erotica that also disappears from the manga after the beggining anyway.
| That being said, I'll start this by talking about the animation side of things. They do have some budget limitations, but this IS Satelight after all, they are usually working with other studios when it comes to their best anime productions, they lack staff for sakuga and action scenes in general, with extra polish usually being given to backgrounds, art direction, CG modelling (both for backgrounds and designs), etc... Mind you, CG modelling is not the same as CG animation. you can have really nice and well detailed CG, and still have a pretty terrible animation (or lack thereof) for them. Which, of course, it's rather true in this case, if you take for example the 3DCGI dragon in EP2 and 3. Satelight has superb art direction for the most part however, even some few scenes with noticeable off-modelling many times at the very least well composed (or in the case of Ubel Blatt's production, not really even there, the visuals are consistently very clean). Theirs' is the kind of production one may say that does basically everything right, except action scenes, which for anime like Helck and Ubel Blatt, can be a bit of a disappointment for people, since the manga fights are so great. However, Ubel Blatt has considerably more budget and care put into action scenes for a Satelight production, it's most definitely in the higher end of their main studio behind production catalogue (Take for example Hellsing Ultimate; that was a Mad House production using Satelight help with their bread and butter, and that's why it had great animation and art direction), and by a pretty long shot. It helps that Staple Entertainment is enhancing the production a bit, with their rather iconic good use of lighting effects and coloring. But moving away from the animation part -which I just wanted to get out of the way first and foremost, since it's just a common complain- let's talk about what was ultimately removed/saved for later and restructured in the current product vs what the original manga went for: For starters, Vol 0 was skipped, the story started 3 weeks later and systematically seem to be saving plot points about certain flashbacks related to central characters from it for later. As I'm rereading with the manga side by side, I can point out majorly: 1- The fake Four Traitor Holy Spears' plot. Which is honestly only there to introduce story elements that get reintroduced and revisited more in depth in the following early volumes anyway (with perhaps the exception for the 2 extra chapters about Ascheriit's early training and backstory). It's pretty much basically: "These guys believed to be the Traitors were rumored to have come back from hell itself to get revenge on the Seven remaining Heroes. Except they were pretenders taking advantage of their infamous reputation to rebel in the face of the horrible conditions they lived in outside of the territory dedicated to those Heroes, and were as low life pieces of garbage as one could get, raping and pillaging any place they went to. Ascheriit killed them all, while meeting along the way with the 2 good guy characters under Glenn that composed his personal army which were trying to get rid of the fake Traitors (and searching for him because of a prophecy about a hero that would save them that matched his description), who happen to know who he is because they overheard his identity reveal to the fakers. And he also killed a chimera made out of Aht's brother, who was beyond saving and lobotomized." In short, Ascheriit kills fakers and reveals himself to be an actual Traitor one, who are actually the real betrayed in the story. They never get brought up again, and the only actually relevant thing missing is to show why he killed Aht's brother, and the 2 characters under Glenn (Rozen and Schemlje), which are now hunting him down, even though they are only doing so because they believe Glenn still brought peace to the land they are protecting (which is quite well displayed in EP2, in which he has such a fervorous following that it completely breaks Köinzell spirit, since he was an actual hero that wanted to protect those people the same way. This is all implied with as much attention as the manga did, which is not really much, but the point is very clear, I think. Köinzell is not the edgy character people seem to try making him seem like. He is very compassionate and shed tears even for fairies being used as weapons. His sensitive breakdown was displayed well, he clearly knows he is likely bringing calamity to the place he once swore to protect in the name of revenge. Volume 0 has him say that to Rozen. For where it stands so far, what is missing from vol 0 of actual importance is: - Flashback his connection to Rozen, Schemlje and Aht in vol 0. - Flashback about Ascheriit's earlier training days and backstory (which also cover some ground about the powers and his survival). - Mention what the prophecy was all about (wouldn't take 10 seconds to show it). You only really miss the reveal of him being Ascheriit being a pretty fun (albeit obvious) reveal. 2- Flashbacks regarding Glenn. Which are being very specifically removed so far in, I imagine we are getting a full flashback including it in chronological order as the story progresses through the remaining nearly 20 volumes of content. This one, unlike the first example, doesn't need much to be said so far. They are basically displaying their relationship, followed by a rather repetitive reminder of his betrayal. There's definitely a healthy way to distilled them in chronological order during a dedicated episode. 3- Erotic elements are removed. Serve absolutely no narrative purpose and basically disappear from the manga after the very beginning of the story, and if memory doesn't fail me, what remains is pretty much some risqué clothing (ecchi fanservice), in which even the nudity is covered up. People get very angsty about their lack of boobs and claims of censorship nowadays, but honestly, the manga itself toned it all down by a whole lot, to the point it's just mid-teens shonen nudity, long hair covering boobs and all that jazz. Also, I guess the violence in the first 2 episodes is toned down a little bit, but not even by much (more like the amount of blood spilled is not as over-the-top). I'm not too sure why people like to frame Ubel Blatt so much like an edgy ultraviolent and erotic story being "censored" and therefore being a bad anime adaptation because of it, when there aren't really many overly gorey scenes in the first place, and the sexual content is more of a case of Early Installment Weirdness than anything else (likely to pick readers' attention quickly, similar to what happened in the first page of Berserk, which Miura famously disliked for not being in line with what Guts came to become). In here, it seems to be the case in spades, as Berserk still had a lot of sexual elements even far later in the run, while Ubel Blatt dropped them very early on. If anything, the removal of the rather alien erotica from it makes for a much better product imo, as well as making it far easier to sympathize with characters that the story seem to want for you to see as the good ones. I definitely am not too desperate to see Altea being enough of a shotacon to ask Köinzell for sex in exchange for being smuggled, in contrast to the anime's negotiation being more ambiguous and giving room to other possibilities instead (perhaps about helping with the monster that gave her a traumatic experience 3 years before, despite them talking while sitting on a bed, which has its own share of implications); regardless skipping any mention of sex or her sexual advances towards him as soon as he entered the room was definitely a much better way to go considering the tone the story shifts toward going forward. 4- Some minor dialogue being removed for the sake of pacing. There are lines that were removed that pretty much are just describing exactly what we are already seeing, a fair bunch of them. There are also lines covering information we can kinda already understand quite fittingly from the context and that are more of flavour text to pronounce a bit more some comedic beats and lampshades. For example the scenes at the bar in EP1, and another few examples from EP3: - We skip a whole portion all about people being impressed about a kid like Köinzell drinking a whole lot. We as the audience know that he is at least around 30-40 years of age due to the amount of years passed in the timeline, and just looks like a kid currently. So the bit of just showing him drinking while Peepi looks at him in disapproval still works (while in the manga, she let us know how much she disapproves it by telling him that kids aren't supposed to drink, since it's bad for them). - Later on, there's also a comedic bit with Rascheb basically giving an overly long dumb excuse to escape the place running for his life, while leaving a random dude from his personal guard to stand up for him while trying to justify his cowardice. it adds nothing other than a bit of extra, irrelevant comedy to the plot, and the removal once again ends up working to the benefit of the anime (better to remove it, it only overstay its welcome and makes more difficult to reach a good stopping point for episode 1). - For a more characterization related example instead Altea and Peepi have a scene skipped regarding what Peepi feels about the new territory, and about what Altea thinks about Peepi thanking her (thinking about what did she really contributed to, getting them nearly killed because she wanted to get revenge on the monster and go through the secret passage). What you miss there is that Peepi thinks even the Other Side is dangerous, because Köinzell got attacked. Ok. And the other thing is that Altea seems to think she didn't help much as a smuggler and was getting sentimental about it (even because they put them in danger, and have personal interest involved). That is not only displayed well enough in EP1, but quite immediately paid off the very next scene adapted in EP 3 with them together (they rearranged so the back-and-forth between scenes happened in one go, and not jumping around through other characters' conversations), with some people thanking her for her help, causing her to visibly display while she cried that it was a thing that she felt very strong about, having helped those people. Does it work slightly better in that case for the manga? A little bit, since she talks a bit more about caring about this before showing that she cares enough about that to cry over it. But I think the anime still did a well enough job getting the point across about her character moment. - Right after this scene, there's also one with Köinzell having a nightmare almost recapping his feelings about what just happened when he tried attacking Glenn. It adds nothing other than to show that he is very bummed about what happened, enough to have a nightmare about how much that exact same scene (being replayed a bit more eerily and pronounced) is affecting him. Visually is a pretty cool scene, but honestly, it's not really anything that isn't already properly displayed in the anime as is, and it would, once again, be problematic to include in order to reach a good stopping point for the episode. - Lastly, you miss a short scene of them searching for the flying ship to no avail after 3 days had passed (might as well not be there), and the fact Altea says she is going with the same people that are moving Peepi to another area (something you will find out about not much later anyway, so repeated information). So yeah, this sort of thing is kind of what the adaptation does when it has to choose what needs to go, it just distilled some scenes for the sake of pacing and episode duration limitations. And these are actually some of the worst examples, and they weren't even that bad. Many times, it just amounts to characters kinda repeating themselves or talking about "X not being stronger than Y", "the people are basically shielding the Seven from my revenge", etc... Overall, such distillations definitely work in the anime's favor all things considered, and are kinda just there in the manga (with some exceptions, like a few good tidbits here and there, like one line skipped about how Wied was a bandit til 2 years before starting serving Kratt, which adds some little flavor, or a very short scene showing Aht being in good terms with her brother), if you really care that much about perfectly word-for-word adaptations no matter the cost (which I personally find silly, despite being of similar opinion when I was a kid). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But summarizing, I don't think the missing content up to this point (especially volume 0 stuff and Glenn related business) affects in any way the ability of viewers to understand the plot. They give more context about things early on, surely, but that in no way makes it impossible for anything from volume 1 onwards to be incomprehensible like some people are willing to claim. Thus the reason why I went through such an extent covering the content and comparing to what the anime did in detail. This adaptation is overhated and Ubel Blatt seems to be a rather misunderstood work even by supposed manga readers discussing it in the episode threads up to this point. |
DanpmssFeb 28, 12:14 PM
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Reply to Saimatsu_Fan
imagine unironically defending censorship and toning down violence and erotica
what a clown
what a clown
| @Saimatsu_Fan Imagine dismissing the entire text and going for such a pathetic ad hominem just because you'd prefer to maintain some subpar edgy content that has been cut, and that offers nothing to the story (if anything, it damaged it), not to mention being dropped by the manga itself barely 3 volumes in lol Not like I defended censorship either way, even because the violence is about the same for the most part, it's just not even that violent, even compared to shounen manga nowadays. All I said is that taking the erotica away actually made for a better product in the end. It never belonged there and it wasn't even well executed; and the mangaka seem to think the same, considering that he stopped even showing bare boobs (which by all means, it's nothing too shocking for seinen manga, nudity could likely still be there with no harm done). Unless you beg to disagree of course, tell us more about it, if you are capable of at least that. You decided to engage in this topic, so I'd expect for you to have more than a one-liner and a personal insult to offer. PS: Not to mention, I guess we're one and the same on not thinking that this sort of toning down harms an experience that doesn't even need it to work. You gave the Fairy Tail anime (also by Satelight) a 10/10 despite it being rather infamous for censoring considerably both violence and lewd content (hell, even smoking, 4kids level censoring) from the manga. And that one was an Ecchi, too! It makes Ubel Blatt anime look like the snuffiest turbosexual splatter in comparison, since at least they still have the stupid ecchi outfits in all their glory. Is that the moment in which I should call you "a clown" for glorifying this heavily censorship-ridden adaptation with a 10/10? heh |
DanpmssFeb 27, 12:09 AM
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| @Danpmss I have to agree, I do not think every mature elements add to a story, and can sometimes detract from it. For example, Berserk needs a high level of violence and nudity because of the type of work it is, but some of the nudity and perhaps violence is just pointless. Schierke's ass, half of Farnese and Casca bathhouse interactions, those are not important to the story and are pretty cringe-inducing. I love Berserk but I do acknowledge there are "those moments". The whole idea behind Chekhov's Gun is that it is advice telling prospective writers to trim the fat. "If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If it's not going to be fired, it shouldn't be hanging there." -Anton Chekov The thing assumed here with Chekhov's gun is that unnecessary content and superfluous details can potentially harm a narrative as the reader experiences it. If you vividly describe in detail every hair on a character's head, you are writing a bad story. Another example of the adaptation that cut down or removed elements of Made In Abyss, which cuts down on the fanservice that was a bit too strong initially and added nothing to the story. At times changes can be made to make a series stand out a bit more or be more modernized. For example, Parasyte's MC looks way different than how he was in the original manga. Part of this is that what was considered an "average" man in the 90s is different than would be considered an "average" man in the 2010s. You could not sell Shinichi being an everyday teenager if he looks like someone straight out of the 90s. It's not necessarily censorship, it is just reconsidering what makes an adaptation good, and what can make it better. @Saimatsu_Fan Indeed, I do not ascribe to the belief that anime should be faithful adaptations down to their most minute details. I am also not saying that every change is necessarily a good one. Just that not all changes are bad in terms of storytelling. Most anime adaptations have to actively cut down material anyway. This advice is not saying that every detail must be thematically important or that you cannot have moments of "downtime" or anything of that sort or even the occasionally miscellany detail that is not important, but that each element should contribute to the intended narrative experience. Speaking of which, Youjo Senki's different works (Light Novel, Anime, and Manga) all differ fairly much in how Tanya is portrayed; in the manga adaptation she is presented as a more compassionate and caring individual (If still distant and professional) compared to the original work, whereas in the anime she is basically a sociopath with a bit of a sadistic streak. It has been said in community that the anime is how the enemies view her, the manga as how the empire propagandizes her, and the more balanced light novel being how she actually is. |
PeripheralVisionFeb 27, 12:17 AM
| Auroraloose's Aurorasimp “Like poking a strange horny animal with a stick” -Fleurbleue the incredibly beautiful and sadistic Québécois |
Reply to PeripheralVision
@Danpmss
I have to agree, I do not think every mature elements add to a story, and can sometimes detract from it. For example, Berserk needs a high level of violence and nudity because of the type of work it is, but some of the nudity and perhaps violence is just pointless. Schierke's ass, half of Farnese and Casca bathhouse interactions, those are not important to the story and are pretty cringe-inducing. I love Berserk but I do acknowledge there are "those moments".
The whole idea behind Chekhov's Gun is that it is advice telling prospective writers to trim the fat.
The thing assumed here with Chekhov's gun is that unnecessary content and superfluous details can potentially harm a narrative as the reader experiences it. If you vividly describe in detail every hair on a character's head, you are writing a bad story.
Another example of the adaptation that cut down or removed elements of Made In Abyss, which cuts down on the fanservice that was a bit too strong initially and added nothing to the story. At times changes can be made to make a series stand out a bit more or be more modernized. For example, Parasyte's MC looks way different than how he was in the original manga. Part of this is that what was considered an "average" man in the 90s is different than would be considered an "average" man in the 2010s. You could not sell Shinichi being an everyday teenager if he looks like someone straight out of the 90s.
It's not necessarily censorship, it is just reconsidering what makes an adaptation good, and what can make it better. @Saimatsu_Fan Indeed, I do not ascribe to the belief that anime should be faithful adaptations down to their most minute details. I am also not saying that every change is necessarily a good one. Just that not all changes are bad in terms of storytelling.
Most anime adaptations have to actively cut down material anyway. This advice is not saying that every detail must be thematically important or that you cannot have moments of "downtime" or anything of that sort or even the occasionally miscellany detail that is not important, but that each element should contribute to the intended narrative experience.
Speaking of which, Youjo Senki's different works (Light Novel, Anime, and Manga) all differ fairly much in how Tanya is portrayed; in the manga adaptation she is presented as a more compassionate and caring individual (If still distant and professional) compared to the original work, whereas in the anime she is basically a sociopath with a bit of a sadistic streak. It has been said in community that the anime is how the enemies view her, the manga as how the empire propagandizes her, and the more balanced light novel being how she actually is.
I have to agree, I do not think every mature elements add to a story, and can sometimes detract from it. For example, Berserk needs a high level of violence and nudity because of the type of work it is, but some of the nudity and perhaps violence is just pointless. Schierke's ass, half of Farnese and Casca bathhouse interactions, those are not important to the story and are pretty cringe-inducing. I love Berserk but I do acknowledge there are "those moments".
The whole idea behind Chekhov's Gun is that it is advice telling prospective writers to trim the fat.
"If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If it's not going to be fired, it shouldn't be hanging there."
-Anton Chekov
-Anton Chekov
The thing assumed here with Chekhov's gun is that unnecessary content and superfluous details can potentially harm a narrative as the reader experiences it. If you vividly describe in detail every hair on a character's head, you are writing a bad story.
Another example of the adaptation that cut down or removed elements of Made In Abyss, which cuts down on the fanservice that was a bit too strong initially and added nothing to the story. At times changes can be made to make a series stand out a bit more or be more modernized. For example, Parasyte's MC looks way different than how he was in the original manga. Part of this is that what was considered an "average" man in the 90s is different than would be considered an "average" man in the 2010s. You could not sell Shinichi being an everyday teenager if he looks like someone straight out of the 90s.
It's not necessarily censorship, it is just reconsidering what makes an adaptation good, and what can make it better. @Saimatsu_Fan Indeed, I do not ascribe to the belief that anime should be faithful adaptations down to their most minute details. I am also not saying that every change is necessarily a good one. Just that not all changes are bad in terms of storytelling.
Most anime adaptations have to actively cut down material anyway. This advice is not saying that every detail must be thematically important or that you cannot have moments of "downtime" or anything of that sort or even the occasionally miscellany detail that is not important, but that each element should contribute to the intended narrative experience.
Speaking of which, Youjo Senki's different works (Light Novel, Anime, and Manga) all differ fairly much in how Tanya is portrayed; in the manga adaptation she is presented as a more compassionate and caring individual (If still distant and professional) compared to the original work, whereas in the anime she is basically a sociopath with a bit of a sadistic streak. It has been said in community that the anime is how the enemies view her, the manga as how the empire propagandizes her, and the more balanced light novel being how she actually is.
| @PeripheralVision I most definitely can agree with the case of Made in Abyss. That's blatantly a case of "the author's barely disguised fetishes" being gratuitously inserted in an otherwise perfectly serviceable eldritch horror adventure story. I kinda made a pretty big post about it some years ago haha And added to the Parasyte example, there's also Ushio to Tora in a similar line of presentation. They definitely modernized his (Ushio) and most of the casts' appearances in a similar way, and it definitely clashed less with the year the anime was released. I'd guess JoJo is a huge exception in this regard, since the art is such huge part of the characterization/presentation in itself in many ways. But yeah, I must admit Youjo Senki is a bit of a funny thing in how it presents itself in different mediums (the author himself going on record wanting Tanya and Viktoriya to look specifically unappealing to the otaku moe audience... and they failed, the weirder design choice actually was supremely popular with fans and had a huge "ugly adorable" appeal lol). |
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| Another wall of text full of ego masturbation by Danpmss, what a shock. That guy really has some inferiority complex bent on attention seeking if we consider how this thread and some of his previous threads were written , trying hard to make people accept his neuro-geriatric verbal spams with edge. |
JoeChipFeb 27, 12:05 PM
| Erotica is never pointless. |
Reply to Danpmss
@Saimatsu_Fan
Imagine dismissing the entire text and going for such a pathetic ad hominem just because you'd prefer to maintain some subpar edgy content that has been cut, and that offers nothing to the story (if anything, it damaged it), not to mention being dropped by the manga itself barely 3 volumes in lol
Not like I defended censorship either way, even because the violence is about the same for the most part, it's just not even that violent, even compared to shounen manga nowadays. All I said is that taking the erotica away actually made for a better product in the end. It never belonged there and it wasn't even well executed; and the mangaka seem to think the same, considering that he stopped even showing bare boobs (which by all means, it's nothing too shocking for seinen manga, nudity could likely still be there with no harm done).
Unless you beg to disagree of course, tell us more about it, if you are capable of at least that. You decided to engage in this topic, so I'd expect for you to have more than a one-liner and a personal insult to offer.
PS: Not to mention, I guess we're one and the same on not thinking that this sort of toning down harms an experience that doesn't even need it to work.
You gave the Fairy Tail anime (also by Satelight) a 10/10 despite it being rather infamous for censoring considerably both violence and lewd content (hell, even smoking, 4kids level censoring) from the manga. And that one was an Ecchi, too! It makes Ubel Blatt anime look like the snuffiest turbosexual splatter in comparison, since at least they still have the stupid ecchi outfits in all their glory.
Is that the moment in which I should call you "a clown" for glorifying this heavily censorship-ridden adaptation with a 10/10? heh
Imagine dismissing the entire text and going for such a pathetic ad hominem just because you'd prefer to maintain some subpar edgy content that has been cut, and that offers nothing to the story (if anything, it damaged it), not to mention being dropped by the manga itself barely 3 volumes in lol
Not like I defended censorship either way, even because the violence is about the same for the most part, it's just not even that violent, even compared to shounen manga nowadays. All I said is that taking the erotica away actually made for a better product in the end. It never belonged there and it wasn't even well executed; and the mangaka seem to think the same, considering that he stopped even showing bare boobs (which by all means, it's nothing too shocking for seinen manga, nudity could likely still be there with no harm done).
Unless you beg to disagree of course, tell us more about it, if you are capable of at least that. You decided to engage in this topic, so I'd expect for you to have more than a one-liner and a personal insult to offer.
PS: Not to mention, I guess we're one and the same on not thinking that this sort of toning down harms an experience that doesn't even need it to work.
You gave the Fairy Tail anime (also by Satelight) a 10/10 despite it being rather infamous for censoring considerably both violence and lewd content (hell, even smoking, 4kids level censoring) from the manga. And that one was an Ecchi, too! It makes Ubel Blatt anime look like the snuffiest turbosexual splatter in comparison, since at least they still have the stupid ecchi outfits in all their glory.
Is that the moment in which I should call you "a clown" for glorifying this heavily censorship-ridden adaptation with a 10/10? heh
| @Danpmss No wonder satelight get involved so there is some censorship, good thing that ova 2016 not have satelight and just A1 pictures. and 2014 A-1 work with bridge instead of satelight. |
Luc36Feb 27, 2:56 PM
 - -  |
Reply to JoeChip
Another wall of text full of ego masturbation by Danpmss, what a shock. That guy really has some inferiority complex bent on attention seeking if we consider how this thread and some of his previous threads were written , trying hard to make people accept his neuro-geriatric verbal spams with edge.
| @JoeChip You yourself don't seem very capable of counterarguing a single word of what I've wrote, as you just prefer to attack me personally instead, classic MAL behavior to go for ad hominems, that's a second in this thread alone. Ironically enough,you are the only one inflating my (self-)importance either way, I just humbly put some of my commonly wordy thoughts out there, and seek to discuss with people that may challenge them. Forums are meant for discussion, after all, I'm sure you know at least that much. Then again, I'm don't really know you, so maybe you do not. Yet, you decide to comment and engage in my supposedly attention-seeking text instead of ignoring it, while not making a single argument of your own. Should I thank you for that, or just laugh? Either way, I'm not the one looking bad here, as you would likely hope lol |
DanpmssFeb 27, 3:04 PM
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Danpmss said: @Saimatsu_Fan Imagine dismissing the entire text and going for such a pathetic ad hominem just because you'd prefer to maintain some subpar edgy content that has been cut, and that offers nothing to the story (if anything, it damaged it), not to mention being dropped by the manga itself barely 3 volumes in lol Not like I defended censorship either way, even because the violence is about the same for the most part, it's just not even that violent, even compared to shounen manga nowadays. All I said is that taking the erotica away actually made for a better product in the end. It never belonged there and it wasn't even well executed; and the mangaka seem to think the same, considering that he stopped even showing bare boobs (which by all means, it's nothing too shocking for seinen manga, nudity could likely still be there with no harm done). Unless you beg to disagree of course, tell us more about it, if you are capable of at least that. You decided to engage in this topic, so I'd expect for you to have more than a one-liner and a personal insult to offer. PS: Not to mention, I guess we're one and the same on not thinking that this sort of toning down harms an experience that doesn't even need it to work. You gave the Fairy Tail anime (also by Satelight) a 10/10 despite it being rather infamous for censoring considerably both violence and lewd content (hell, even smoking, 4kids level censoring) from the manga. And that one was an Ecchi, too! It makes Ubel Blatt anime look like the snuffiest turbosexual splatter in comparison, since at least they still have the stupid ecchi outfits in all their glory. Is that the moment in which I should call you "a clown" for glorifying this heavily censorship-ridden adaptation with a 10/10? heh you're still a pathetic clown who defends censorship as for FT, i love the series which is why i gave it a 10/10, even though it's censored and i don't like that, the series itself is 10/10 to me and i never once defended the censorship of it or any other series for that matter, so your " gotcha " argument doesn't work you dummy |
Reply to Saimatsu_Fan
Danpmss said:
@Saimatsu_Fan
Imagine dismissing the entire text and going for such a pathetic ad hominem just because you'd prefer to maintain some subpar edgy content that has been cut, and that offers nothing to the story (if anything, it damaged it), not to mention being dropped by the manga itself barely 3 volumes in lol
Not like I defended censorship either way, even because the violence is about the same for the most part, it's just not even that violent, even compared to shounen manga nowadays. All I said is that taking the erotica away actually made for a better product in the end. It never belonged there and it wasn't even well executed; and the mangaka seem to think the same, considering that he stopped even showing bare boobs (which by all means, it's nothing too shocking for seinen manga, nudity could likely still be there with no harm done).
Unless you beg to disagree of course, tell us more about it, if you are capable of at least that. You decided to engage in this topic, so I'd expect for you to have more than a one-liner and a personal insult to offer.
PS: Not to mention, I guess we're one and the same on not thinking that this sort of toning down harms an experience that doesn't even need it to work.
You gave the Fairy Tail anime (also by Satelight) a 10/10 despite it being rather infamous for censoring considerably both violence and lewd content (hell, even smoking, 4kids level censoring) from the manga. And that one was an Ecchi, too! It makes Ubel Blatt anime look like the snuffiest turbosexual splatter in comparison, since at least they still have the stupid ecchi outfits in all their glory.
Is that the moment in which I should call you "a clown" for glorifying this heavily censorship-ridden adaptation with a 10/10? heh
@Saimatsu_Fan
Imagine dismissing the entire text and going for such a pathetic ad hominem just because you'd prefer to maintain some subpar edgy content that has been cut, and that offers nothing to the story (if anything, it damaged it), not to mention being dropped by the manga itself barely 3 volumes in lol
Not like I defended censorship either way, even because the violence is about the same for the most part, it's just not even that violent, even compared to shounen manga nowadays. All I said is that taking the erotica away actually made for a better product in the end. It never belonged there and it wasn't even well executed; and the mangaka seem to think the same, considering that he stopped even showing bare boobs (which by all means, it's nothing too shocking for seinen manga, nudity could likely still be there with no harm done).
Unless you beg to disagree of course, tell us more about it, if you are capable of at least that. You decided to engage in this topic, so I'd expect for you to have more than a one-liner and a personal insult to offer.
PS: Not to mention, I guess we're one and the same on not thinking that this sort of toning down harms an experience that doesn't even need it to work.
You gave the Fairy Tail anime (also by Satelight) a 10/10 despite it being rather infamous for censoring considerably both violence and lewd content (hell, even smoking, 4kids level censoring) from the manga. And that one was an Ecchi, too! It makes Ubel Blatt anime look like the snuffiest turbosexual splatter in comparison, since at least they still have the stupid ecchi outfits in all their glory.
Is that the moment in which I should call you "a clown" for glorifying this heavily censorship-ridden adaptation with a 10/10? heh
you're still a pathetic clown who defends censorship
as for FT, i love the series which is why i gave it a 10/10, even though it's censored and i don't like that, the series itself is 10/10 to me and i never once defended the censorship of it or any other series for that matter, so your " gotcha " argument doesn't work you dummy
| @Saimatsu_Fan Once again, I'm not defending censorship, in case you purposefully skipped that paragraph (much like you did the entire rest of the text I wrote lol). If you are giving a 10/10 to a censored work despite the fact it clearly censored what is essentially a huge part of its own genre (aka the Ecchi genre), it means you don't really mind that happening in works you like, even though it's about the same situation (except in a far bigger magnitude, since the anime was basically infantilized for the consumption of its target anime audience). Hilariously enough, it's precisely what people are saying in the comment section about Ubel Blatt, how it went for a shounen approach instead of a seinen approach for itself. It seems to me your train of thought only applies to things that aren't your favorites, wouldn't you agree? So yeah, that so-called "gotcha" argument actually fits like a glove. Saimatsu_Fan said: when does fanservice " add anything to the story " so clowns like you wouldn't actually defend censorship ? As for this (again reiterating I'm not even defending censorship, til it's properly hammered down in your head), Fanservice adds to the story when it actually contributes or not to either the plot, the themes, how it stands with what the story portrays itself to be in an overview, the intention of the insertion of said scenes vs what it the setting ultimately presents, etc... I can exemplify each of these with a different anime adaptation that enhanced theirs, but I'll make the job easier to myself and just compare it to what Ishuzoku Reviewers by Passione did (which by the way, it's the one 10/10 ecchi series I have in my own list): - Fanservice in there (and any further augmentations to it) contributes to the plot of the story (which is about interspecies brothel reviewers, themselves from different species, it's a sex comedy so of course the expliciter the sex, the better). - It also contributes to the themes of the story (a body positive, sex work positive and kink positive fantastical take on the concepts, it presents everything as consensual and wholesome, even the kinkiest aspects of the matter). - It also doesn't overstays its welcome nor is alien to what the story ultimately portrays itself to be about, if anything, it portrays it with even more excellence in the adaptation, compared to the less smutty manga source material. - The intention of said sex scenes are also rather clear and much compatible to what the setting ultimately presents itself to be. Notice how each and every one of these do not apply to Ubel Blatt in any way. It was never an Ecchi story with Dark Fantasy elements. It was a Dark Fantasy story that happened to have rather intrusive ecchi elements that don't even fit what it ultimately went for, likely reason why the author himself toned it down considerably and even stopped showing full nudity after a bit. Even though it does still have some fanservicey bits left even in the anime, even those don't really contribute to anything other than making intended serious scenes feel somewhat ridiculous, like the Aht's buttshot in EP3 while she confronted an equally scandalously clothed Peepi defending a collapsed Köinzell (all the while Wied goes "Those garbs, they are wore by revengers in the family I serve!!!" or something to that extent, and we are supposed to take it as a serious plot point as much as he does lol). It is misplaced fanservice, something the manga would then get much better at balancing out as it progresses, after it also removed the erotica. |
DanpmssFeb 28, 7:43 AM
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Reply to bastek66
Erotica is part dark fantasy. Without it, it's castrated shit.
@Danpmss Fairy tail was saturday morning kids show, no wonders it was censored.
@Danpmss Fairy tail was saturday morning kids show, no wonders it was censored.
| @bastek66 It isn't really. You can have Dark Fantasy without erotica, it isn't something absolutely essential for it to work, nor it should be considered "shit" of any sort in its absence (and if you really think so, I'd argue you are just technically -and largely- generalizing the whole genre as a poor excuse for smut/erotic content). That's not to say that Dark Fantasy works can't include disturbing erotic content to good effect (like the Convention arc for Berserk, or hell, the Golden Age Eclipse in itself), but that's not the case in Ubel Blatt, as it was executed poorly and is only in there for shock value and for the sake of there being erotica. You remove it, and there's nothing lost in the grand scheme of things. You keep it, and you have conflicting themes (Altea, a righteous person that just happens to be a pedophile of the kind Köinzell usually tear apart in two within story, and yet she is one of the good guys that helped so it's okay, and then again, the story overally completely ignored it ever happened from chapter 20-ish and above, it makes no difference and can be removed as easily as the author himself did). Dorohedoro is a one great example of a non-erotic Dark Fantasy manga, that at best has some nudity on display, and which presence can fit just fine the tone they went for. I guess you would hate it for being "castrated shit", but that's honestly your loss, and yours only. You will be missing out. As for Fairy Tail, that's precisely the point of contention. Ubel Blatt similarly seems to get shitted on for being "much more shounen than seinen" (it already was much more of a shounen manga than a seinen one at that, in several key regards lol). |
DanpmssFeb 28, 8:26 AM
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Reply to bastek66
Erotica is part dark fantasy. Without it, it's castrated shit.
@Danpmss Fairy tail was saturday morning kids show, no wonders it was censored.
@Danpmss Fairy tail was saturday morning kids show, no wonders it was censored.
Saimatsu_Fan said: imagine unironically defending censorship and toning down violence and erotica what a clown Ripperdoc said: They removed all the tiddies and the ecchi tag (which was the reason I started watching) Zarutaku said: Erotica is never pointless. bastek66 said: Erotica is part dark fantasy. Without it, it's castrated shit. glad to see people with sense are responding lol FUCK censorship |
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Reply to EcchiGodMamster
Saimatsu_Fan said:
imagine unironically defending censorship and toning down violence and erotica
what a clown
imagine unironically defending censorship and toning down violence and erotica
what a clown
Ripperdoc said:
They removed all the tiddies and the ecchi tag (which was the reason I started watching)
They removed all the tiddies and the ecchi tag (which was the reason I started watching)
Zarutaku said:
Erotica is never pointless.
Erotica is never pointless.
bastek66 said:
Erotica is part dark fantasy. Without it, it's castrated shit.
Erotica is part dark fantasy. Without it, it's castrated shit.
glad to see people with sense are responding lol
FUCK censorship
| @EcchiGodMamster I must say, considering you are literally all about the fanservice and only that down to your profile and username, perhaps it will be a futile effort to ask of you to try to back up their claims against my response to them directly below the single line responses you quoted (including claims about supposedly "defending censorship") lol I do respect the passion though, at least you are one I'd call coherent, and that actually analyzes your things based on whether there's fanservice or not. It makes for a more coherent approach to media comprehension than a lot of other comments here on MAL as a whole, so I'll just disagree on those people necessarily having good sense (at least when it comes to your same approach to sense, aka, regarding fanservice) and leave it at that heh After all, I do think there's more appreciate mainly in stories than the fanservice, so we won't be seeing eye-to-eye in that regard. But again, I do respect the laser focus dedication in analyzing that and only that. |
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| I like how this entire thread just ignores the fact the whole point of having an anime adaptation is to be able to follow the story without having to read the original source and this anime adaptation has very much failed to do that as obvious from the comments in the episode threads. |
Reply to JoeChip
I like how this entire thread just ignores the fact the whole point of having an anime adaptation is to be able to follow the story without having to read the original source and this anime adaptation has very much failed to do that as obvious from the comments in the episode threads.
| @JoeChip And yet, if you actually read what I wrote, you would find that I brought up all the missing content from volume 0 that is relevant to the story, and analyzed it one by one to illustrate the point that the adaptation still follows the story just fine without turning in any way incomprehensible. Even because about every single bit of relevant information from volume 0 get reintroduced as the volumes progress. And that's without even putting into consideration that they will indeed adapt volume 0 later, as they only need a couple of scenes from it either way. If you (in your own words and not from anyone else's, but feel free to bring their points at this rate) are finding the anime lacking any particular information that fails to portray something essential, by all means MENTION it, even if in a handwaved manner. By all means, illustrate a counterargument that proves me wrong. That's what discussions are all about, in fact. Alas, I haven't seen a single person argue back in regards to that so far, they are mostly focused about it "being shit" for not having explicit smut lol |
DanpmssFeb 28, 12:14 PM
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| you can have story without violence too, but again what is the point having many genres, theme, age rating if ended up being sanitized and everything is just like carbon copy... I could understand if this were AIR, where the original had erotic content but was intentionally reworked into an all-ages version because the creator clearly stated that was the goal. But for this anime, people expect the original content, and there was never any announcement about making it all-ages like Air. And yes, the erotic and violent aspects here are part of the world-building. They help show how dark and brutal that time period was. Worse, they even removed the concept of people being priced as property, which was an important part of the setting. The world settings isn’t one where those things were already abolished and that also key part of the story’s backdrop. |
Luc36Feb 28, 1:02 PM
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Reply to Danpmss
@EcchiGodMamster
I must say, considering you are literally all about the fanservice and only that down to your profile and username, perhaps it will be a futile effort to ask of you to try to back up their claims against my response to them directly below the single line responses you quoted (including claims about supposedly "defending censorship") lol
I do respect the passion though, at least you are one I'd call coherent, and that actually analyzes your things based on whether there's fanservice or not. It makes for a more coherent approach to media comprehension than a lot of other comments here on MAL as a whole, so I'll just disagree on those people necessarily having good sense (at least when it comes to your same approach to sense, aka, regarding fanservice) and leave it at that heh
After all, I do think there's more appreciate mainly in stories than the fanservice, so we won't be seeing eye-to-eye in that regard. But again, I do respect the laser focus dedication in analyzing that and only that.
I must say, considering you are literally all about the fanservice and only that down to your profile and username, perhaps it will be a futile effort to ask of you to try to back up their claims against my response to them directly below the single line responses you quoted (including claims about supposedly "defending censorship") lol
I do respect the passion though, at least you are one I'd call coherent, and that actually analyzes your things based on whether there's fanservice or not. It makes for a more coherent approach to media comprehension than a lot of other comments here on MAL as a whole, so I'll just disagree on those people necessarily having good sense (at least when it comes to your same approach to sense, aka, regarding fanservice) and leave it at that heh
After all, I do think there's more appreciate mainly in stories than the fanservice, so we won't be seeing eye-to-eye in that regard. But again, I do respect the laser focus dedication in analyzing that and only that.
| @Danpmss fuck censorship, i don't need to "back up" anything if something you care about gets censored, you probably complain and you don't need any reason to defend complaining other than "because i like seeing the thing that was censored" or something to that degree end of story |
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Reply to EcchiGodMamster
@Danpmss
fuck censorship, i don't need to "back up" anything
if something you care about gets censored, you probably complain and you don't need any reason to defend complaining other than "because i like seeing the thing that was censored" or something to that degree
end of story
fuck censorship, i don't need to "back up" anything
if something you care about gets censored, you probably complain and you don't need any reason to defend complaining other than "because i like seeing the thing that was censored" or something to that degree
end of story
| @EcchiGodMamster As I said, you indeed don't, and you aren't here to argue a single point I've made. You are mad about the removal of fanservice and that's it. That's what I can respect. But it doesn't really change a single thing I said about the content within itself adding nothing to the story, nor about it being damaging to some character arcs (which the manga preferred to act like it never happened), nor about how the author nearly completely removed that from his work after the initial chapters himself. The removal of erotical content ended up working in the story's favor, writing-wise, and it also did so for the manga going forward. And as you don't care about that (but about the spicy goodness), that's indeed "End of Story". Added to that, if you actually cared for Ubel Blatt as much as you claim, you'd know that the fanservice gets heavily toned down shortly after the portion the anime just reached (and the erotica outright removed ever since chapter 20, with a few individual panels displaying sex showning up rather rarely, also toned down). I don't think you really care at all about what Ubel Blatt has to offer and that gets properly adapted in the anime, in fact. But that's what makes me give props to your adamancy for analyzing things for their ecchi content alone, the rest be damned. Thanks for your participation, we know well where you stand (and as I said, I also enjoy my ero-content when it's used to good effect too, so...). |
DanpmssFeb 28, 1:50 PM
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Reply to Danpmss
@EcchiGodMamster
As I said, you indeed don't, and you aren't here to argue a single point I've made. You are mad about the removal of fanservice and that's it.
That's what I can respect. But it doesn't really change a single thing I said about the content within itself adding nothing to the story, nor about it being damaging to some character arcs (which the manga preferred to act like it never happened), nor about how the author nearly completely removed that from his work after the initial chapters himself.
The removal of erotical content ended up working in the story's favor, writing-wise, and it also did so for the manga going forward.
And as you don't care about that (but about the spicy goodness), that's indeed "End of Story".
Added to that, if you actually cared for Ubel Blatt as much as you claim, you'd know that the fanservice gets heavily toned down shortly after the portion the anime just reached (and the erotica outright removed ever since chapter 20, with a few individual panels displaying sex showning up rather rarely, also toned down).
I don't think you really care at all about what Ubel Blatt has to offer and that gets properly adapted in the anime, in fact.
But that's what makes me give props to your adamancy for analyzing things for their ecchi content alone, the rest be damned.
Thanks for your participation, we know well where you stand (and as I said, I also enjoy my ero-content when it's used to good effect too, so...).
As I said, you indeed don't, and you aren't here to argue a single point I've made. You are mad about the removal of fanservice and that's it.
That's what I can respect. But it doesn't really change a single thing I said about the content within itself adding nothing to the story, nor about it being damaging to some character arcs (which the manga preferred to act like it never happened), nor about how the author nearly completely removed that from his work after the initial chapters himself.
The removal of erotical content ended up working in the story's favor, writing-wise, and it also did so for the manga going forward.
And as you don't care about that (but about the spicy goodness), that's indeed "End of Story".
Added to that, if you actually cared for Ubel Blatt as much as you claim, you'd know that the fanservice gets heavily toned down shortly after the portion the anime just reached (and the erotica outright removed ever since chapter 20, with a few individual panels displaying sex showning up rather rarely, also toned down).
I don't think you really care at all about what Ubel Blatt has to offer and that gets properly adapted in the anime, in fact.
But that's what makes me give props to your adamancy for analyzing things for their ecchi content alone, the rest be damned.
Thanks for your participation, we know well where you stand (and as I said, I also enjoy my ero-content when it's used to good effect too, so...).
| @Danpmss i said it once and ill say it again, fuck censorship i don't care what you think it does or doesn't do, i want to see in the anime what is in the source material, that goes BEYOND just fanservice i don't want skipped content or toned down violence anymore than i want removed fanservice, regardless of which of those i care the most for in the Salaryman isekai airing rn, they gave a shirtless male character under clothing in the adaptation. hes supposed to look like an ancient egyptian (or something like that) and now it looks like hes wearing something somehwhat modern underneath, which just makes the change even more ridiclous it doesn't matter whether or not i don't care to see a shirtless male character, its still a fucking dumb change... if its in the source material, then put it in the fucking adaptation, i shouldn't have to read the source material to see it |
EcchiGodMamsterFeb 28, 2:05 PM
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Reply to Luc36
you can have story without violence too, but again what is the point having many genres, theme, age rating if ended up being sanitized and everything is just like carbon copy...
I could understand if this were AIR, where the original had erotic content but was intentionally reworked into an all-ages version because the creator clearly stated that was the goal. But for this anime, people expect the original content, and there was never any announcement about making it all-ages like Air.
And yes, the erotic and violent aspects here are part of the world-building. They help show how dark and brutal that time period was. Worse, they even removed the concept of people being priced as property, which was an important part of the setting. The world settings isn’t one where those things were already abolished and that also key part of the story’s backdrop.
I could understand if this were AIR, where the original had erotic content but was intentionally reworked into an all-ages version because the creator clearly stated that was the goal. But for this anime, people expect the original content, and there was never any announcement about making it all-ages like Air.
And yes, the erotic and violent aspects here are part of the world-building. They help show how dark and brutal that time period was. Worse, they even removed the concept of people being priced as property, which was an important part of the setting. The world settings isn’t one where those things were already abolished and that also key part of the story’s backdrop.
| @Luc36 Other than removing the erotic content/full nudity, which doesn't really do much other than to create characterization/writing inconsistencies in this case, The anime is just as bloody as the manga for the most part, for one thing (we can go doing panel to screen comparisons about that all day if you want). It's just not as brutal and visceral as some other seinen mangas for its time. Hell, not even close to some of the shounen mangas we have had in the last few years. It's not even the edgefest people claim it to be. the protagonist for this has what one could call furious benevolence. He will kill the ones who wronged him and anyone abusing their powers to hurt the weak, since he is a hero. The setting for Ubel Blatt, despite having its share of attrocities that were pretty well displayed in the anime as well, pales in comparison to other revenge shounen manga stories like Juujika no Rokunin, for example. People either remember this manga solely for volume 0, or never bothered to actually read it at all, to be honest. Ubel Blatt was never too extreme with either the bloodshed nor consisten with the sexual content (gets dropped very early on with the exception of some fanservicey clothing). If they were indeed expecting the original content, almost everything else that actually matters/is important for the story to work made the cut. The sex scenes mostly just paused the entire flow of storytelling to deliver smut, even in that regard the removal worked in the benefit of this rather distilled adaptation. Keep all the essentials, trim the rest. If you prefer to see that as a matter of pragmatism, it would still fit just fine (even because there's nothing that got cut from volumes 1-5 so far that that actually added anything of value for the plot that wasn't already there). Adaptations aren't always bad just because some things had to be let go, and the same level of grittiness present in the original volumes adapted so far are ever present in the anime, it's just that it wasn't anywhere near as brutal as Berserk in the first place. Lastly, as far as I know, reading side by side every single chapter adapted up to this point, there has been no mention of slavery in the manga up to the current chapter 43, barely just touched by episode 8. Do enlighten me where that was cut, because it's not in the current setting just yet to add to anything. Worst that happened were girls being kidnapped by bandits and being brought to be experimented with in the castle, some of them being transformed into enslaved fighters (is also included in the anime). |
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Reply to Saimatsu_Fan
PeripheralVision said:
@Danpmss
I have to agree, I do not think every mature elements add to a story, and can sometimes detract from it. For example, Berserk needs a high level of violence and nudity because of the type of work it is, but some of the nudity and perhaps violence is just pointless. Schierke's ass, half of Farnese and Casca bathhouse interactions, those are not important to the story and are pretty cringe-inducing. I love Berserk but I do acknowledge there are "those moments".
The whole idea behind Chekhov's Gun is that it is advice telling prospective writers to trim the fat.
The thing assumed here with Chekhov's gun is that unnecessary content and superfluous details can potentially harm a narrative as the reader experiences it. If you vividly describe in detail every hair on a character's head, you are writing a bad story.
Another example of the adaptation that cut down or removed elements of Made In Abyss, which cuts down on the fanservice that was a bit too strong initially and added nothing to the story. At times changes can be made to make a series stand out a bit more or be more modernized. For example, Parasyte's MC looks way different than how he was in the original manga. Part of this is that what was considered an "average" man in the 90s is different than would be considered an "average" man in the 2010s. You could not sell Shinichi being an everyday teenager if he looks like someone straight out of the 90s.
It's not necessarily censorship, it is just reconsidering what makes an adaptation good, and what can make it better. @Saimatsu_Fan Indeed, I do not ascribe to the belief that anime should be faithful adaptations down to their most minute details. I am also not saying that every change is necessarily a good one. Just that not all changes are bad in terms of storytelling.
Most anime adaptations have to actively cut down material anyway. This advice is not saying that every detail must be thematically important or that you cannot have moments of "downtime" or anything of that sort or even the occasionally miscellany detail that is not important, but that each element should contribute to the intended narrative experience.
Speaking of which, Youjo Senki's different works (Light Novel, Anime, and Manga) all differ fairly much in how Tanya is portrayed; in the manga adaptation she is presented as a more compassionate and caring individual (If still distant and professional) compared to the original work, whereas in the anime she is basically a sociopath with a bit of a sadistic streak. It has been said in community that the anime is how the enemies view her, the manga as how the empire propagandizes her, and the more balanced light novel being how she actually is.
@Danpmss
I have to agree, I do not think every mature elements add to a story, and can sometimes detract from it. For example, Berserk needs a high level of violence and nudity because of the type of work it is, but some of the nudity and perhaps violence is just pointless. Schierke's ass, half of Farnese and Casca bathhouse interactions, those are not important to the story and are pretty cringe-inducing. I love Berserk but I do acknowledge there are "those moments".
The whole idea behind Chekhov's Gun is that it is advice telling prospective writers to trim the fat.
"If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If it's not going to be fired, it shouldn't be hanging there."
-Anton Chekov
-Anton Chekov
The thing assumed here with Chekhov's gun is that unnecessary content and superfluous details can potentially harm a narrative as the reader experiences it. If you vividly describe in detail every hair on a character's head, you are writing a bad story.
Another example of the adaptation that cut down or removed elements of Made In Abyss, which cuts down on the fanservice that was a bit too strong initially and added nothing to the story. At times changes can be made to make a series stand out a bit more or be more modernized. For example, Parasyte's MC looks way different than how he was in the original manga. Part of this is that what was considered an "average" man in the 90s is different than would be considered an "average" man in the 2010s. You could not sell Shinichi being an everyday teenager if he looks like someone straight out of the 90s.
It's not necessarily censorship, it is just reconsidering what makes an adaptation good, and what can make it better. @Saimatsu_Fan Indeed, I do not ascribe to the belief that anime should be faithful adaptations down to their most minute details. I am also not saying that every change is necessarily a good one. Just that not all changes are bad in terms of storytelling.
Most anime adaptations have to actively cut down material anyway. This advice is not saying that every detail must be thematically important or that you cannot have moments of "downtime" or anything of that sort or even the occasionally miscellany detail that is not important, but that each element should contribute to the intended narrative experience.
Speaking of which, Youjo Senki's different works (Light Novel, Anime, and Manga) all differ fairly much in how Tanya is portrayed; in the manga adaptation she is presented as a more compassionate and caring individual (If still distant and professional) compared to the original work, whereas in the anime she is basically a sociopath with a bit of a sadistic streak. It has been said in community that the anime is how the enemies view her, the manga as how the empire propagandizes her, and the more balanced light novel being how she actually is.
a question
when does fanservice " add anything to the story " so clowns like you wouldn't actually defend censorship ?
Saimatsu_Fan said: a question when does fanservice " add anything to the story " so clowns like you wouldn't actually defend censorship ? A good example is Goblin Slayer where we see Sword Maiden's scarred body. It is a brutal way to show of her past experience with Goblin-kind without putting it into awkward words or dialogue. Of course, it should be said that nudity is not always fanservice, or vice versa. The Eclipse from Berserk comes to mind. Nudity? Yes. Fanservice? Hell no. Fanservice can include more than nudity, such as 4th wall-breaking references to blatant pandering, to which I argue fanservice is what killed later Marvel movies and Star Wars films. They become too obsessed with bringing back fan-favorite characters like Boba Fett and Ashoka without really doing anything with them. I don't view this as censorship as I do not subscribe to the view that adaptation must be faithful to the most minute detail; by that logic Berserk 1997 is more censored than Berserk 2016 because for all it faults, Berserk 2016 is actually quite a bit more faithful to the narrative than Berserk 1997. The issue is that Berserk 1997 captured the tone of the source material despite having to cut down some material, yet having plenty of the graphic nudity and violence, whereas Berserk 2016 took out nipples. Part of this is that some adaptations clearly cannot cover everything a story has covered within 12 episodes or 24 episodes. Thus, I see adaptations as potentially works in their own right, and thus deserving to be treated as their own entities to an extent. It was not uncommon for anime to have cut out stuff in general in the early 2000s. Seriously, compare Trigun and Elfen Lied to their source material. There's a ton of shit missing. It therefore makes sense that you cut out things that may not be important to the story, or may even detract from it. Another example Invincible; Kirkman is responsible for numerous changes in the webseries adaptation because of some elements he felt did not fit into the story, and which he had a decade to sit on. Something of this nature might be happening, depending on how much creative control is given to the original author here. Maybe it is not. Who knows? I don't really consider it "censorship" because those adapting the story are creatives in themselves; they are aware of the constraints of adapting manga to anime. I do agree that nudity and violence are a hallmark of dark fantasy, but there are times when the nudity and violence or other elements are so playful that it tones become clashing, or at least not necessary when you have only so much time to show things. I don't think you can say you respect art if you consider those who adapt works in general to not themselves be artists putting their own spin on works. Otherwise, why even watch anime? You could certainly cut out what, half of chapter 202 of Berserk and it actually would not change anything. You could cut out Mineta from BNHA or Don Kanoji from Bleach and the anime would better for it. In short? Any part of a series should be considered when it comes to a good adaptation, and even 8/10 manga can become 9/10 anime if one knows what to cut or even expand upon. It depends on the manga and what is being cut. |
PeripheralVisionFeb 28, 2:44 PM
| Auroraloose's Aurorasimp “Like poking a strange horny animal with a stick” -Fleurbleue the incredibly beautiful and sadistic Québécois |
Reply to EcchiGodMamster
@Danpmss
i said it once and ill say it again, fuck censorship
i don't care what you think it does or doesn't do, i want to see in the anime what is in the source material, that goes BEYOND just fanservice
i don't want skipped content or toned down violence anymore than i want removed fanservice, regardless of which of those i care the most for
in the Salaryman isekai airing rn, they gave a shirtless male character under clothing in the adaptation. hes supposed to look like an ancient egyptian (or something like that) and now it looks like hes wearing something somehwhat modern underneath, which just makes the change even more ridiclous
it doesn't matter whether or not i don't care to see a shirtless male character, its still a fucking dumb change...
if its in the source material, then put it in the fucking adaptation, i shouldn't have to read the source material to see it
i said it once and ill say it again, fuck censorship
i don't care what you think it does or doesn't do, i want to see in the anime what is in the source material, that goes BEYOND just fanservice
i don't want skipped content or toned down violence anymore than i want removed fanservice, regardless of which of those i care the most for
in the Salaryman isekai airing rn, they gave a shirtless male character under clothing in the adaptation. hes supposed to look like an ancient egyptian (or something like that) and now it looks like hes wearing something somehwhat modern underneath, which just makes the change even more ridiclous
it doesn't matter whether or not i don't care to see a shirtless male character, its still a fucking dumb change...
if its in the source material, then put it in the fucking adaptation, i shouldn't have to read the source material to see it
| @EcchiGodMamster I don't mind about you not caring either, it's fine by me. We will get nowhere if you only care about everything being adapted no exception. But if you are going to add that, I may have to call out inconsistencies in your evaluations as well. For starters. you are not extreme to that extent about what gets removed, considering that High School of the Dead is about as toned down from the manga as Ubel Blatt is in here, and yet it's in your favorites anime, and not magically "complete trash" for censoring the content even in the BD version. Another one would be the first To Love Ru anime, also in your favorites. Removed the camel toes, removed some full nudity and nipples, removed several chapters worth of content as well. And yet, you seem to be fine with it alright, and that's an ecchi anime of all things. Fuck censorship right? Except when it happens to things I have in my favorites lol Well, there goes the respect I had for you if that's where you really stand in the end, what a shame. Ubel Blatt is also a far better adaptation than the both of them. But I guess it's shittier because it only has SOME ecchi, and not ALL ecchi... despite not even really being much of an ecchi, unlike the aforementioned two, which have MORE ecchi (oh the surprise, the ecchi anime has more ecchi and focuses on it!) and yet, not ALL ecchi all the same. Just stick with "you only really care about whether there's horny content or not" next time, it's a better label than contradictory and biased heh |
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Reply to Danpmss
@Luc36
Other than removing the erotic content/full nudity, which doesn't really do much other than to create characterization/writing inconsistencies in this case, The anime is just as bloody as the manga for the most part, for one thing (we can go doing panel to screen comparisons about that all day if you want).
It's just not as brutal and visceral as some other seinen mangas for its time. Hell, not even close to some of the shounen mangas we have had in the last few years. It's not even the edgefest people claim it to be. the protagonist for this has what one could call furious benevolence. He will kill the ones who wronged him and anyone abusing their powers to hurt the weak, since he is a hero. The setting for Ubel Blatt, despite having its share of attrocities that were pretty well displayed in the anime as well, pales in comparison to other revenge shounen manga stories like Juujika no Rokunin, for example.
People either remember this manga solely for volume 0, or never bothered to actually read it at all, to be honest. Ubel Blatt was never too extreme with either the bloodshed nor consisten with the sexual content (gets dropped very early on with the exception of some fanservicey clothing). If they were indeed expecting the original content, almost everything else that actually matters/is important for the story to work made the cut.
The sex scenes mostly just paused the entire flow of storytelling to deliver smut, even in that regard the removal worked in the benefit of this rather distilled adaptation. Keep all the essentials, trim the rest. If you prefer to see that as a matter of pragmatism, it would still fit just fine (even because there's nothing that got cut from volumes 1-5 so far that that actually added anything of value for the plot that wasn't already there).
Adaptations aren't always bad just because some things had to be let go, and the same level of grittiness present in the original volumes adapted so far are ever present in the anime, it's just that it wasn't anywhere near as brutal as Berserk in the first place.
Lastly, as far as I know, reading side by side every single chapter adapted up to this point, there has been no mention of slavery in the manga up to the current chapter 43, barely just touched by episode 8. Do enlighten me where that was cut, because it's not in the current setting just yet to add to anything. Worst that happened were girls being kidnapped by bandits and being brought to be experimented with in the castle, some of them being transformed into enslaved fighters (is also included in the anime).
Other than removing the erotic content/full nudity, which doesn't really do much other than to create characterization/writing inconsistencies in this case, The anime is just as bloody as the manga for the most part, for one thing (we can go doing panel to screen comparisons about that all day if you want).
It's just not as brutal and visceral as some other seinen mangas for its time. Hell, not even close to some of the shounen mangas we have had in the last few years. It's not even the edgefest people claim it to be. the protagonist for this has what one could call furious benevolence. He will kill the ones who wronged him and anyone abusing their powers to hurt the weak, since he is a hero. The setting for Ubel Blatt, despite having its share of attrocities that were pretty well displayed in the anime as well, pales in comparison to other revenge shounen manga stories like Juujika no Rokunin, for example.
People either remember this manga solely for volume 0, or never bothered to actually read it at all, to be honest. Ubel Blatt was never too extreme with either the bloodshed nor consisten with the sexual content (gets dropped very early on with the exception of some fanservicey clothing). If they were indeed expecting the original content, almost everything else that actually matters/is important for the story to work made the cut.
The sex scenes mostly just paused the entire flow of storytelling to deliver smut, even in that regard the removal worked in the benefit of this rather distilled adaptation. Keep all the essentials, trim the rest. If you prefer to see that as a matter of pragmatism, it would still fit just fine (even because there's nothing that got cut from volumes 1-5 so far that that actually added anything of value for the plot that wasn't already there).
Adaptations aren't always bad just because some things had to be let go, and the same level of grittiness present in the original volumes adapted so far are ever present in the anime, it's just that it wasn't anywhere near as brutal as Berserk in the first place.
Lastly, as far as I know, reading side by side every single chapter adapted up to this point, there has been no mention of slavery in the manga up to the current chapter 43, barely just touched by episode 8. Do enlighten me where that was cut, because it's not in the current setting just yet to add to anything. Worst that happened were girls being kidnapped by bandits and being brought to be experimented with in the castle, some of them being transformed into enslaved fighters (is also included in the anime).
| @Danpmss nah no, the erotica part here is showing how bad the villain is because the girl also part of girl they bought. it's showing how corrupt they are and it's important factor too. I am not talking about volume 0 only. there has been no mention of slavery in the manga up to the current chapter 43, barely just touched by episode 8. Do enlighten me where that was cut just search on this forum, i don't really interested to check again just for this about set price on the girl. i also already drop this because if they can't handle that content there is no way they can handle something more than this. |
Luc36Feb 28, 2:45 PM
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Reply to Luc36
@Danpmss nah no, the erotica part here is showing how bad the villain is because the girl also part of girl they bought. it's showing how corrupt they are and it's important factor too. I am not talking about volume 0 only.
there has been no mention of slavery in the manga up to the current chapter 43, barely just touched by episode 8. Do enlighten me where that was cut
just search on this forum, i don't really interested to check again just for this about set price on the girl. i also already drop this because if they can't handle that content there is no way they can handle something more than this.| @Luc36 And which chapter/episode are you referring to? I can go take a look and compare side by side in here as well, if relevant. I'm pretty sure everything regarding the harsh setting in Ubel Blatt got pretty well adapted all things considered (absence of vol 0, aka no raping and pillaging), but you never really know. |
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Reply to Danpmss
@EcchiGodMamster
I don't mind about you not caring either, it's fine by me.
We will get nowhere if you only care about everything being adapted no exception.
But if you are going to add that, I may have to call out inconsistencies in your evaluations as well. For starters. you are not extreme to that extent about what gets removed, considering that High School of the Dead is about as toned down from the manga as Ubel Blatt is in here, and yet it's in your favorites anime, and not magically "complete trash" for censoring the content even in the BD version.
Another one would be the first To Love Ru anime, also in your favorites. Removed the camel toes, removed some full nudity and nipples, removed several chapters worth of content as well. And yet, you seem to be fine with it alright, and that's an ecchi anime of all things. Fuck censorship right? Except when it happens to things I have in my favorites lol
Well, there goes the respect I had for you if that's where you really stand in the end, what a shame. Ubel Blatt is also a far better adaptation than the both of them. But I guess it's shittier because it only has SOME ecchi, and not ALL ecchi... despite not even really being much of an ecchi, unlike the aforementioned two, which have MORE ecchi (oh the surprise, the ecchi anime has more ecchi and focuses on it!) and yet, not ALL ecchi all the same.
Just stick with "you only really care about whether there's horny content or not" next time, it's a better label than contradictory and biased heh
I don't mind about you not caring either, it's fine by me.
We will get nowhere if you only care about everything being adapted no exception.
But if you are going to add that, I may have to call out inconsistencies in your evaluations as well. For starters. you are not extreme to that extent about what gets removed, considering that High School of the Dead is about as toned down from the manga as Ubel Blatt is in here, and yet it's in your favorites anime, and not magically "complete trash" for censoring the content even in the BD version.
Another one would be the first To Love Ru anime, also in your favorites. Removed the camel toes, removed some full nudity and nipples, removed several chapters worth of content as well. And yet, you seem to be fine with it alright, and that's an ecchi anime of all things. Fuck censorship right? Except when it happens to things I have in my favorites lol
Well, there goes the respect I had for you if that's where you really stand in the end, what a shame. Ubel Blatt is also a far better adaptation than the both of them. But I guess it's shittier because it only has SOME ecchi, and not ALL ecchi... despite not even really being much of an ecchi, unlike the aforementioned two, which have MORE ecchi (oh the surprise, the ecchi anime has more ecchi and focuses on it!) and yet, not ALL ecchi all the same.
Just stick with "you only really care about whether there's horny content or not" next time, it's a better label than contradictory and biased heh
Danpmss said: But if you are going to add that, I may have to call out inconsistencies in your evaluations as well. For starters. you are not extreme to that extent about what gets removed, considering that High School of the Dead is about as toned down from the manga as Ubel Blatt is in here, and yet it's in your favorites anime, and not magically "complete trash" for censoring the content even in the BD version. i never said Ubel Blatt was "complete trash"... when did i say that? when did i ever say censorship made something "trash"? what are you arguing that i said? i didn't say censorship makes me DISLIKE a series, nor did i ever imply that i can't still love the anime, how does the series being in my favorites mean i don't still hate censorship? doesn't EVERY anime get censored from its source material to some degree? in that case i wouldnt be able to have any favorite anime that stems from a manga or LN in an ideal world they wouldnt remove anything |
EcchiGodMamsterFeb 28, 2:47 PM
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Reply to EcchiGodMamster
Danpmss said:
But if you are going to add that, I may have to call out inconsistencies in your evaluations as well. For starters. you are not extreme to that extent about what gets removed, considering that High School of the Dead is about as toned down from the manga as Ubel Blatt is in here, and yet it's in your favorites anime, and not magically "complete trash" for censoring the content even in the BD version.
But if you are going to add that, I may have to call out inconsistencies in your evaluations as well. For starters. you are not extreme to that extent about what gets removed, considering that High School of the Dead is about as toned down from the manga as Ubel Blatt is in here, and yet it's in your favorites anime, and not magically "complete trash" for censoring the content even in the BD version.
i never said Ubel Blatt was "complete trash"... when did i say that? when did i ever say censorship made something "trash"?
what are you arguing that i said?
i didn't say censorship makes me DISLIKE a series, nor did i ever imply that i can't still love the anime, how does the series being in my favorites mean i don't still hate censorship?
doesn't EVERY anime get censored from its source material to some degree? in that case i wouldnt be able to have any favorite anime that stems from a manga or LN
in an ideal world they wouldnt remove anything
EcchiGodMamster said: doesn't EVERY anime get censored from its source material to some degree? in that case i wouldnt be able to have any favorite anime that stems from a manga or LN in an ideal world they wouldnt remove anything I can agree to an extent that it would be better if works can be perfectly translated to anime, but you are definitely stretching the definition of the word "censorship". While I will not badger you for using it loosely, as in not using the definition of: the suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security but instead the more colloquial use of the term, however I think calling everything censorship goes too far. It makes the assumption that all exclusionary changes were made out of some sort of puritanical malice. I don't think these sorts of minute changes that come with adapting anything to another type of media deserve to be criticized on a same level as Berserk 2016, as "censorship". It is just the inherent difficulty of adaptations. No matter what anyone does, you cannot recreate a book in film format and still expect the same experience as having read the book. Same goes for manga and anime. I think it is best to consider them two different media. |
| Auroraloose's Aurorasimp “Like poking a strange horny animal with a stick” -Fleurbleue the incredibly beautiful and sadistic Québécois |
Reply to Danpmss
@Luc36
And which chapter/episode are you referring to? I can go take a look and compare side by side in here as well, if relevant.
I'm pretty sure everything regarding the harsh setting in Ubel Blatt got pretty well adapted all things considered (absence of vol 0, aka no raping and pillaging), but you never really know.
And which chapter/episode are you referring to? I can go take a look and compare side by side in here as well, if relevant.
I'm pretty sure everything regarding the harsh setting in Ubel Blatt got pretty well adapted all things considered (absence of vol 0, aka no raping and pillaging), but you never really know.
| @Danpmss the one that serve as a slave wearing like dancer, one of the girl even get killed while others are scared but still serving the villain, don't ask me to check which chapter because it's been long time since i read it, but by how the anime going they're surely will never show this scene. this scene also showing how dark the story and how bad the villain is. it's adding nuance which also important. what i just want to point out is, everything matter especially nuance and reason which is gone in anime. i even saw people confused about their actions and choice. |
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Reply to EcchiGodMamster
Danpmss said:
But if you are going to add that, I may have to call out inconsistencies in your evaluations as well. For starters. you are not extreme to that extent about what gets removed, considering that High School of the Dead is about as toned down from the manga as Ubel Blatt is in here, and yet it's in your favorites anime, and not magically "complete trash" for censoring the content even in the BD version.
But if you are going to add that, I may have to call out inconsistencies in your evaluations as well. For starters. you are not extreme to that extent about what gets removed, considering that High School of the Dead is about as toned down from the manga as Ubel Blatt is in here, and yet it's in your favorites anime, and not magically "complete trash" for censoring the content even in the BD version.
i never said Ubel Blatt was "complete trash"... when did i say that? when did i ever say censorship made something "trash"?
what are you arguing that i said?
i didn't say censorship makes me DISLIKE a series, nor did i ever imply that i can't still love the anime, how does the series being in my favorites mean i don't still hate censorship?
doesn't EVERY anime get censored from its source material to some degree? in that case i wouldnt be able to have any favorite anime that stems from a manga or LN
in an ideal world they wouldnt remove anything
| @EcchiGodMamster Oh, let's not be like that now, you were just calling this an "extremely mediocre and cucked adaptation" by the time I commented in the latest episode (adding "overly safe" don't really take away from the harshness either). You have been shitting on this for censorship this entire time despite having a whole bunch of similarly censored anime in your favorites that actually got a rather mediocre adaptation, unlike what we have here (with mostly everything included).  Not to mention, being the person actually saying that could care less for the adaptation because you are so upset about the removal of ero-scenes. Don't start acting like you don't think very lowly of this anime now, because that's obviously not true. The truth is that you expected this to be an edgelord's goon fantasy anime alà Redo of Healer, and your expectations sank when you realized that this is more of a shounen anime with an edge that happens to have been published in a seinen magazine, thus blaming it all on censorship.  When the reality is that it was never such a thing, content from the first 3 chapters (vol 0) vastly differ from the soft reboot in another magazine (vol1 onwards) and the first 20 chapters (end of volume 2) also vastly differ from the remaining 21 volumes, and even removes nipple nudity as it progresses. Either way, my point is that this is a really good adaptation for all that it includes vs what it actually cuts. Whether or not you truly not care as you once said is a you thing, thus why I could care less and respected your laser-focus priorities (removes ecchi = bad, since ecchi is what matters). Clearly, I seem to have misjudged that, and you are not too different from the others here. |
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Reply to PeripheralVision
EcchiGodMamster said:
doesn't EVERY anime get censored from its source material to some degree? in that case i wouldnt be able to have any favorite anime that stems from a manga or LN
in an ideal world they wouldnt remove anything
doesn't EVERY anime get censored from its source material to some degree? in that case i wouldnt be able to have any favorite anime that stems from a manga or LN
in an ideal world they wouldnt remove anything
I can agree to an extent that it would be better if works can be perfectly translated to anime, but you are definitely stretching the definition of the word "censorship". While I will not badger you for using it loosely, as in not using the definition of:
the suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security
but instead the more colloquial use of the term, however I think calling everything censorship goes too far. It makes the assumption that all exclusionary changes were made out of some sort of puritanical malice. I don't think these sorts of minute changes that come with adapting anything to another type of media deserve to be criticized on a same level as Berserk 2016, as "censorship". It is just the inherent difficulty of adaptations.
No matter what anyone does, you cannot recreate a book in film format and still expect the same experience as having read the book. Same goes for manga and anime. I think it is best to consider them two different media.
the suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security do some people NOT think obscene = "too degenerate/lewd/degrading", "too violent", "too gory" politically unacceptable = "degrading to women" or "it might remind someone of something bad that happened irl" a threat to security = "seeing it might cause someone to do something bad irl" cause i hope you're not implying that this ISN'T why sexy stuff and violence gets removed/toned down it is 200% censorship |
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Reply to Luc36
@Danpmss the one that serve as a slave wearing like dancer, one of the girl even get killed while others are scared but still serving the villain, don't ask me to check which chapter because it's been long time since i read it, but by how the anime going they're surely will never show this scene. this scene also showing how dark the story and how bad the villain is. it's adding nuance which also important.
what i just want to point out is, everything matter especially nuance and reason which is gone in anime. i even saw people confused about their actions and choice.
what i just want to point out is, everything matter especially nuance and reason which is gone in anime. i even saw people confused about their actions and choice.
| @Luc36 If you are talking about the scene in chapter 39 in which Barestar kills one of the two women his guards brought him claiming that she was an assassin trying to kill him, in a paranoic frenzy, that one was adapted down to the amount of blood spilled, and the clothes were also the same. None of the two were ever implied to be slaves, they were just apprehensive about serving Lord Barestar (with good reason, most unfortunately). If that is anything from after chapter 65, it's definitely not being covered in this season though, and I myself am revisiting the story after a LOOOOOONG time, so I don't remember it happening either if it did, and time will tell to actually declare if it will be removed or not. As it stands however, nothing of the sort was removed that would damage the setting, from vol1-5. |
DanpmssFeb 28, 6:00 PM
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Reply to Danpmss
@EcchiGodMamster
Oh, let's not be like that now, you were just calling this an "extremely mediocre and cucked adaptation" by the time I commented in the latest episode (adding "overly safe" don't really take away from the harshness either). You have been shitting on this for censorship this entire time despite having a whole bunch of similarly censored anime in your favorites that actually got a rather mediocre adaptation, unlike what we have here (with mostly everything included).
Not to mention, being the person actually saying that could care less for the adaptation because you are so upset about the removal of ero-scenes.
Don't start acting like you don't think very lowly of this anime now, because that's obviously not true.
The truth is that you expected this to be an edgelord's goon fantasy anime alà Redo of Healer, and your expectations sank when you realized that this is more of a shounen anime with an edge that happens to have been published in a seinen magazine, thus blaming it all on censorship.
When the reality is that it was never such a thing, content from the first 3 chapters (vol 0) vastly differ from the soft reboot in another magazine (vol1 onwards) and the first 20 chapters (end of volume 2) also vastly differ from the remaining 21 volumes, and even removes nipple nudity as it progresses.
Either way, my point is that this is a really good adaptation for all that it includes vs what it actually cuts. Whether or not you truly not care as you once said is a you thing, thus why I could care less and respected your laser-focus priorities (removes ecchi = bad, since ecchi is what matters). Clearly, I seem to have misjudged that, and you are not too different from the others here.
Oh, let's not be like that now, you were just calling this an "extremely mediocre and cucked adaptation" by the time I commented in the latest episode (adding "overly safe" don't really take away from the harshness either). You have been shitting on this for censorship this entire time despite having a whole bunch of similarly censored anime in your favorites that actually got a rather mediocre adaptation, unlike what we have here (with mostly everything included).
Not to mention, being the person actually saying that could care less for the adaptation because you are so upset about the removal of ero-scenes.
Don't start acting like you don't think very lowly of this anime now, because that's obviously not true.
The truth is that you expected this to be an edgelord's goon fantasy anime alà Redo of Healer, and your expectations sank when you realized that this is more of a shounen anime with an edge that happens to have been published in a seinen magazine, thus blaming it all on censorship.
When the reality is that it was never such a thing, content from the first 3 chapters (vol 0) vastly differ from the soft reboot in another magazine (vol1 onwards) and the first 20 chapters (end of volume 2) also vastly differ from the remaining 21 volumes, and even removes nipple nudity as it progresses.
Either way, my point is that this is a really good adaptation for all that it includes vs what it actually cuts. Whether or not you truly not care as you once said is a you thing, thus why I could care less and respected your laser-focus priorities (removes ecchi = bad, since ecchi is what matters). Clearly, I seem to have misjudged that, and you are not too different from the others here.
Danpmss said: Oh, let's not be like that now, you were just calling this an "extremely mediocre and cucked adaptation" by the time I commented in the latest episode (adding "overly safe" don't really take away from the harshness either). You have been shitting on this for censorship this entire time despite having a whole bunch of similarly censored anime in your favorites that actually got a rather mediocre adaptation, unlike what we have here (with mostly everything included). medicore =/= trash, bad i like anything "more" if it has fanservice/ecchi, whether or not the adaptation is medicore, although i'd PREFER the adaptation NOT BE Mato Seihei no Slave is my favorite manga and the anime is in my favorites, yet, believe it or not, i think the adaptation was TRASH, why is it still in my favorites? because it still falls into the category of the type of anime i favorite i never said a shitty adaptation can't be in my favorites Danpmss said: Don't start acting like you don't think very lowly of this anime now, because that's obviously not true. if i hated this then i'd have already dropped it... its about a 6/10 for me, which i consider "mid"... the only currently airing anime i think is "trash" that i'm still watching is Farmagia and i've said in the episode discussions that the ONLY REASON I'm still watching it is because of Hiro Mashima's character designs and i've dropped anime with ecchi/fanservice before and finished anime without it so.... Danpmss said: The truth is that you expected this to be an edgelord's goon fantasy anime alà Redo of Healer, and your expectations sank when you realized that this is more of a shounen anime with an edge that happens to have been published in a seinen magazine, hell yea |
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Reply to Danpmss
@Luc36
If you are talking about the scene in chapter 39 in which Barestar kills one of the two women his guards brought him claiming that she was an assassin trying to kill him, in a paranoic frenzy, that one was adapted down to the amount of blood spilled, and the clothes were also the same. None of the two were ever implied to be slaves, they were just apprehensive about serving Lord Barestar (with good reason, most unfortunately).
If that is anything from after chapter 65, it's definitely not being covered in this season though, and I myself am revisiting the story after a LOOOOOONG time, so I don't remember it happening either if it did, and time will tell to actually declare if it will be removed or not. As it stands however, nothing of the sort was removed that would damage the setting, from vol1-5.
If you are talking about the scene in chapter 39 in which Barestar kills one of the two women his guards brought him claiming that she was an assassin trying to kill him, in a paranoic frenzy, that one was adapted down to the amount of blood spilled, and the clothes were also the same. None of the two were ever implied to be slaves, they were just apprehensive about serving Lord Barestar (with good reason, most unfortunately).
If that is anything from after chapter 65, it's definitely not being covered in this season though, and I myself am revisiting the story after a LOOOOOONG time, so I don't remember it happening either if it did, and time will tell to actually declare if it will be removed or not. As it stands however, nothing of the sort was removed that would damage the setting, from vol1-5.
| @Danpmss not in paranoic frenzy for sure because it was in bed room and move to his chair when discussing about the situation. well, it's nothing damage for you i guess, good for you. i will rest now. btw here https://filmarks.com/animes/4511/6098 this review from jp perspective which mostly disappointed and said the adaptation is fail. i don't read all of it but i guess that is how they view this show. |
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Reply to Luc36
@Danpmss not in paranoic frenzy for sure because it was in bed room and move to his chair when discussing about the situation.
well, it's nothing damage for you i guess, good for you. i will rest now.
btw here https://filmarks.com/animes/4511/6098 this review from jp perspective which mostly disappointed and said the adaptation is fail. i don't read all of it but i guess that is how they view this show.
well, it's nothing damage for you i guess, good for you. i will rest now.
btw here https://filmarks.com/animes/4511/6098 this review from jp perspective which mostly disappointed and said the adaptation is fail. i don't read all of it but i guess that is how they view this show.
| @Luc36 Well, then it's not the same scene I'm mentioning, and it's probably from the third arc onwards (which won't be adapted this cour). It's not like it's not damaging FOR ME, it really isn't even there, ultimately. I think we didn't reach the part you are referencing to, so it couldn't possibly have been cut. Also, in regard to filmarks, there are like 72 people watching Ubel Blatt in this site, and 19 total voters. The couple of them that did write a small review for it (mostly the first 3 episodes episodes for it, which are a bit of an introduction) either disliked the animation (it's Satelight, comprehensible, even for one of their best efforts) or found the plot not particularly interesting/hard to follow for moving too fast (which fair enough, it's pretty fast paced, even in the manga, but honestly, the information is still in there). There's indeed one user that says the adaptation failed, and I disagree with that person, as you can see from my text. Either way, what I mean is that I wouldn't call it exactly a reliable sample from the general audience reception for it in the Japanese perspective, personally speaking. The same way I wouldn't call an anime with 500 votes on MAL (the bare minimum) to have much ground for a general reaction. Japanese people rarely really discuss anime in-depth like we do in here, or reddit, or animesuki, or 4chan, etc... And when they do, is through dedicated anime blogs, or a dedicated post on twitter (Japanese people usually prefer to just give a fast reaction with hashtags, not review things throughly), when there isn't a thread in 2ch about it (and those are basically just a bunch of people being bitter and sarcastic about everything that isn't picture threads, similar to 4chan; if something exists, there will be someone to shit on it just for the lols). Reactions on twitter are about one would expect, too, nothing too harsh. People memeing about dark fantasy mob bullying and iconic quotes that got adapted ("You incompetent fool!"), UUOOOOGH-ing about the fanservicey outfits and butt shots, making jokes about some aspects of the animation (like the tears of characters), and the ones I've found analyzing with some more specific reactions in comparison to the manga are enjoying the ride, while also commenting about some things I actually also did (Rozen's removed monologue referring to his character arc, which is clearly getting postponed). You can check those out by typing the tag in katakana. |
DanpmssFeb 28, 7:00 PM
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Reply to Saimatsu_Fan
Danpmss said:
@Saimatsu_Fan Once again, I'm not defending censorship, in case you purposefully skipped that paragraph (much like you did the entire rest of the text I wrote lol).
If you are giving a 10/10 to a censored work despite the fact it clearly censored what is essentially a huge part of its own genre (aka the Ecchi genre), it means you don't really mind that happening in works you like, even though it's about the same situation (except in a far bigger magnitude, since the anime was basically infantilized for the consumption of its target anime audience).
Hilariously enough, it's precisely what people are saying in the comment section about Ubel Blatt, how it went for a shounen approach instead of a seinen approach for itself. It seems to me your train of thought only applies to things that aren't your favorites, wouldn't you agree? So yeah, that so-called "gotcha" argument actually fits like a glove.
As for this (again reiterating I'm not even defending censorship, til it's properly hammered down in your head), Fanservice adds to the story when it actually contributes or not to either the plot, the themes, how it stands with what the story portrays itself to be in an overview, the intention of the insertion of said scenes vs what it the setting ultimately presents, etc...
I can exemplify each of these with a different anime adaptation that enhanced theirs, but I'll make the job easier to myself and just compare it to what Ishuzoku Reviewers by Passione did (which by the way, it's the one 10/10 ecchi series I have in my own list):
- Fanservice in there (and any further augmentations to it) contributes to the plot of the story (which is about interspecies brothel reviewers, themselves from different species, it's a sex comedy so of course the expliciter the sex, the better).
- It also contributes to the themes of the story (a body positive, sex work positive and kink positive fantastical take on the concepts, it presents everything as consensual and wholesome, even the kinkiest aspects of the matter).
- It also doesn't overstays its welcome nor is alien to what the story ultimately portrays itself to be about, if anything, it portrays it with even more excellence in the adaptation, compared to the less smutty manga source material.
- The intention of said sex scenes are also rather clear and much compatible to what the setting ultimately presents itself to be.
Notice how each and every one of these do not apply to Ubel Blatt in any way. It was never an Ecchi story with Dark Fantasy elements. It was a Dark Fantasy story that happened to have rather intrusive ecchi elements that don't even fit what it ultimately went for, likely reason why the author himself toned it down considerably and even stopped showing full nudity after a bit.
Even though it does still have some fanservicey bits left even in the anime, even those don't really contribute to anything other than making intended serious scenes feel somewhat ridiculous, like the Aht's buttshot in EP3 while she confronted an equally scandalously clothed Peepi defending a collapsed Köinzell (all the while Wied goes "Those garbs, they are wore by revengers in the family I serve!!!" or something to that extent, and we are supposed to take it as a serious plot point as much as he does lol).
It is misplaced fanservice, something the manga would then get much better at balancing out as it progresses, after it also removed the erotica.
@Saimatsu_Fan Once again, I'm not defending censorship, in case you purposefully skipped that paragraph (much like you did the entire rest of the text I wrote lol).
If you are giving a 10/10 to a censored work despite the fact it clearly censored what is essentially a huge part of its own genre (aka the Ecchi genre), it means you don't really mind that happening in works you like, even though it's about the same situation (except in a far bigger magnitude, since the anime was basically infantilized for the consumption of its target anime audience).
Hilariously enough, it's precisely what people are saying in the comment section about Ubel Blatt, how it went for a shounen approach instead of a seinen approach for itself. It seems to me your train of thought only applies to things that aren't your favorites, wouldn't you agree? So yeah, that so-called "gotcha" argument actually fits like a glove.
Saimatsu_Fan said:
when does fanservice " add anything to the story " so clowns like you wouldn't actually defend censorship ?
when does fanservice " add anything to the story " so clowns like you wouldn't actually defend censorship ?
As for this (again reiterating I'm not even defending censorship, til it's properly hammered down in your head), Fanservice adds to the story when it actually contributes or not to either the plot, the themes, how it stands with what the story portrays itself to be in an overview, the intention of the insertion of said scenes vs what it the setting ultimately presents, etc...
I can exemplify each of these with a different anime adaptation that enhanced theirs, but I'll make the job easier to myself and just compare it to what Ishuzoku Reviewers by Passione did (which by the way, it's the one 10/10 ecchi series I have in my own list):
- Fanservice in there (and any further augmentations to it) contributes to the plot of the story (which is about interspecies brothel reviewers, themselves from different species, it's a sex comedy so of course the expliciter the sex, the better).
- It also contributes to the themes of the story (a body positive, sex work positive and kink positive fantastical take on the concepts, it presents everything as consensual and wholesome, even the kinkiest aspects of the matter).
- It also doesn't overstays its welcome nor is alien to what the story ultimately portrays itself to be about, if anything, it portrays it with even more excellence in the adaptation, compared to the less smutty manga source material.
- The intention of said sex scenes are also rather clear and much compatible to what the setting ultimately presents itself to be.
Notice how each and every one of these do not apply to Ubel Blatt in any way. It was never an Ecchi story with Dark Fantasy elements. It was a Dark Fantasy story that happened to have rather intrusive ecchi elements that don't even fit what it ultimately went for, likely reason why the author himself toned it down considerably and even stopped showing full nudity after a bit.
Even though it does still have some fanservicey bits left even in the anime, even those don't really contribute to anything other than making intended serious scenes feel somewhat ridiculous, like the Aht's buttshot in EP3 while she confronted an equally scandalously clothed Peepi defending a collapsed Köinzell (all the while Wied goes "Those garbs, they are wore by revengers in the family I serve!!!" or something to that extent, and we are supposed to take it as a serious plot point as much as he does lol).
It is misplaced fanservice, something the manga would then get much better at balancing out as it progresses, after it also removed the erotica.
1) you did defend censorship by saying " it makes the product better!! " Lol, also stuff like " Altea isn't a shotacon anymore which is a good thing " which is you defending the show changed because of " unnecessary" inappropriate material, the reason why you think censorship is good doesn't matter, censorship is bad, period
2) or could it be i give ratings to stuff simply because i like/don't like them regardless of them being censored or not, evident by shows like Kanokon and plus sized elf which are uncensored/have uncensored ver yet i still rated low, because if i don't like the show I'm not suddenly going to defend it because they didn't censor the T&A
And again unlike you, you dumb clown, i NEVER once defended a show being censored with : " it makes the story better!! " Or " i like that design more " or " um the fanservice was unnecessary!!! "
Your gotcha argument doesn't work again, you just looked at me giving FT 10/10 and ignored everything else, like that there are many uncensored shows that i gave low ratings because i rate the show whether i like it or not, not from an anime production standpoint, else many shows like FT and black clover would have actually low rating because the animation sucks, but i didn't because again, that's not how i rate stuff
| @Saimatsu_Fan (Well, this is getting a bit tedious now, so I will be a bit harsher) 1)You can quit with the bad faith argument already, I did not defend censorship lol I stated that the removal of the content happened to be beneficial to the final product, since Altea's and Köinzell's characterization suffers from that being poorly executed in the first place. If I defended censorship, I'd say that would always be the case and that any sort of similar content should be removed for things to be "better" (which is polar opposite of what I talked about one of my 10/10s (Ishuzoku Reviewers) just now, I'd be complaining if that got any scenes removed, and rejoiced for the scenes added, because it benefits the content in hand, unlike in this case. You are putting words on my mouth. Me saying that the removal of the erotica benefited the portrayal the author ultimately went with for Altea and Köinzell (he basically completely ignored their sexual interactions ever happened, while at it) is just an observation. We call it Early-Installment Weirdness, and similar to Berserk's (Guts having sex with some random demon in the first page and killing it). Ubel Blatt suffers from the same thing. It starts trying to gather attention with some Berserk appeal in the first run (volume 0). Then in the second run (volume 1-23), it downscales that edge a whole lot, and change Köinzell's characterization a bit. By the time we reach the end of volume 2, Köinzell (a heroic, compassionate figure) is no longer having sex with pedophiles interested in his kid body long before knowing his real age (quite opposite to his characterization even as early as volume 0, which also has a shotacon woman that sexually assaults him, and which he cuts in half for more reasons than one), nor Altea acts like one ever again, becoming a beacon of hope and respect in the story. Hard sell when you consider her past actions and how the author is then ignoring what she once was, but hey, the anime fixed that inconsistency by just not having those scenes even happen. Horray! In short, and hopefully that stays in your head this time: "Defending censorship" =/= Saying that a specific scene or two being cut ended up making for a better product. 2) Oh my, and isn't that the precise point I'm making in here! In that case you should do the same with Ubel Blatt, and not just use censorship as an excuse, because I doubt you would campaign against your masterpiece Fairy Tail for that same reason (and in that case, again, not only is it an actual Ecchi work, but also far more heavily censored and toned down than this). Stop being a hypocrite and have some coherence with the way you analyze your own criteria. If I say it adds nothing and you don't lose much by removing those scenes in here, it means you care about those elements as much as I do when it comes to the things you like. You do not care at all. Let's follow your train of thought here for a second just to point out how ridiculous that argument is: Danpmss: "This is a really good adaptation. Removing the erotica and toning down the violence in a small scene or two doesn't affect it negatively. Luckily, the anime somehow benefited from these omittions, that's nice." Saimatsu_Fan: "What a clown! Imagine unironically defending censorship and toning down violence and erotica!" Also Saimatsu_Fan: "Fairy Tail is a 10/10 anime. Censoring the ecchi, toning down the violence considerably as a whole and even removing characters smoking doesn't affect my score negatively, as I still like it all the same." Danpmss: "So you are saying you think the censorship doesn't affect it negatively for you and it's still a perfect score of 10/10? How was it again... What a clown! Imagine unironically defending censorship and toning down violence and ecchi lol" Saimatsu_Fan: "Noooo, you pathetic clown! That's different, because I never said it it did good for Fairy Tail (I just basically said that it was acceptable enough for me to still give it a perfect score despite the censorship anyway, because I like it all the same)!" Of course you didn't say it was good. Because unlike Ubel Blatt, which lucked out with most of its content removal that actually made for a better experience (especially when it comes to removing repetitive dialogue), Fairy Tail only had to lose with its censorship (significantly less violence meant lower tension in a battle shounen, and censored ecchi scenes means lower appeal to an ecchi series). The violence was barely affected, and the erotica in Ubel Blatt would already disappear shortly after the first sets of chapters either way, and served no purpose other than messing with character arcs and padding content. My guy, your entire discourse up to this point was "fuck censorship, unless it's something I really like, then it's a 10/10 and the censorship doesn't matter as much". You lost your argument from the point you don't agree with your own absolutes. And yet you claim that the reason why I'm supposedly defending censorship is because I said "well, luckily it ended up working out for the better despite removing content". Had I not say that, it wouldn't really change the fact that nothing of importance was lost. Then what? Would I only then be allowed by your majesty to say that "much like Fairy Tail to you, the censorship changed nothing, and the quality is still pristine without it"? Here's a new word for your vocabulary, Belief Perseverance. You are too biased to actually care about censorship being a real problem here, you care about what you believe people are saying is pro-censorship. Which is the reason why you attacked ME (Ad Hominem), and not my arguments in the post, in the first place LOL And "Gotcha arguments" have little to do with your lack of reading comprehension in regard to what I'm pointing to. Nobody cares if you gave over 9000 uncensored shows a low rating. That just means the shows are bad in your eyes. Now what's the reason you would give a perfect 10/10 to something that basically a huge representative of everything you are making it out to be a big deal of a bad thing, in this very thread? You don't care if something you consider a masterpiece/perfect score is a heavily censored product, you would like it all the same. Now, whether you just wanted to look good by trying calling me out for supposedly defending censorship or not, that I'll leave to people's discretion, including your own and mine. The point is that it was a poorly thought argument that just exposed you as a biased hypocrite by definition of the words. |
DanpmssMar 1, 9:56 AM
|
Reply to Danpmss
@Luc36
Well, then it's not the same scene I'm mentioning, and it's probably from the third arc onwards (which won't be adapted this cour). It's not like it's not damaging FOR ME, it really isn't even there, ultimately. I think we didn't reach the part you are referencing to, so it couldn't possibly have been cut.
Also, in regard to filmarks, there are like 72 people watching Ubel Blatt in this site, and 19 total voters. The couple of them that did write a small review for it (mostly the first 3 episodes episodes for it, which are a bit of an introduction) either disliked the animation (it's Satelight, comprehensible, even for one of their best efforts) or found the plot not particularly interesting/hard to follow for moving too fast (which fair enough, it's pretty fast paced, even in the manga, but honestly, the information is still in there).
There's indeed one user that says the adaptation failed, and I disagree with that person, as you can see from my text. Either way, what I mean is that I wouldn't call it exactly a reliable sample from the general audience reception for it in the Japanese perspective, personally speaking. The same way I wouldn't call an anime with 500 votes on MAL (the bare minimum) to have much ground for a general reaction.
Japanese people rarely really discuss anime in-depth like we do in here, or reddit, or animesuki, or 4chan, etc... And when they do, is through dedicated anime blogs, or a dedicated post on twitter (Japanese people usually prefer to just give a fast reaction with hashtags, not review things throughly), when there isn't a thread in 2ch about it (and those are basically just a bunch of people being bitter and sarcastic about everything that isn't picture threads, similar to 4chan; if something exists, there will be someone to shit on it just for the lols).
Reactions on twitter are about one would expect, too, nothing too harsh. People memeing about dark fantasy mob bullying and iconic quotes that got adapted ("You incompetent fool!"), UUOOOOGH-ing about the fanservicey outfits and butt shots, making jokes about some aspects of the animation (like the tears of characters), and the ones I've found analyzing with some more specific reactions in comparison to the manga are enjoying the ride, while also commenting about some things I actually also did (Rozen's removed monologue referring to his character arc, which is clearly getting postponed).
You can check those out by typing the tag in katakana.
Well, then it's not the same scene I'm mentioning, and it's probably from the third arc onwards (which won't be adapted this cour). It's not like it's not damaging FOR ME, it really isn't even there, ultimately. I think we didn't reach the part you are referencing to, so it couldn't possibly have been cut.
Also, in regard to filmarks, there are like 72 people watching Ubel Blatt in this site, and 19 total voters. The couple of them that did write a small review for it (mostly the first 3 episodes episodes for it, which are a bit of an introduction) either disliked the animation (it's Satelight, comprehensible, even for one of their best efforts) or found the plot not particularly interesting/hard to follow for moving too fast (which fair enough, it's pretty fast paced, even in the manga, but honestly, the information is still in there).
There's indeed one user that says the adaptation failed, and I disagree with that person, as you can see from my text. Either way, what I mean is that I wouldn't call it exactly a reliable sample from the general audience reception for it in the Japanese perspective, personally speaking. The same way I wouldn't call an anime with 500 votes on MAL (the bare minimum) to have much ground for a general reaction.
Japanese people rarely really discuss anime in-depth like we do in here, or reddit, or animesuki, or 4chan, etc... And when they do, is through dedicated anime blogs, or a dedicated post on twitter (Japanese people usually prefer to just give a fast reaction with hashtags, not review things throughly), when there isn't a thread in 2ch about it (and those are basically just a bunch of people being bitter and sarcastic about everything that isn't picture threads, similar to 4chan; if something exists, there will be someone to shit on it just for the lols).
Reactions on twitter are about one would expect, too, nothing too harsh. People memeing about dark fantasy mob bullying and iconic quotes that got adapted ("You incompetent fool!"), UUOOOOGH-ing about the fanservicey outfits and butt shots, making jokes about some aspects of the animation (like the tears of characters), and the ones I've found analyzing with some more specific reactions in comparison to the manga are enjoying the ride, while also commenting about some things I actually also did (Rozen's removed monologue referring to his character arc, which is clearly getting postponed).
You can check those out by typing the tag in katakana.
| @Danpmss the reason i don't link to twitter because it's close to none people talking about it, i don't understand why you're using twitter to judge while almost no one talking about it and ignore the one that focused on production. twitter jp also mostly not used for critics but praise or question especially on arts or entertainment. they're mostly only went to something that they like or interest to begin with, unlike in english. that's why you will just find people who support it mostly. This the difference between JP and english comment on nikke. here on anikore https://www.anikore.jp/anime/14859/ Summary they had 2 points : 1. It's hard to follow for non reader and just watch the anime (fail to adapt because too many skip and can be also because of censored part). 2. Many original reader disappointed and for first time viewer are fine because they don't even know how the original work is. (this opposite of what you feels) You will find these 2 commonly said there. Tsuma, shougakuei ni naru also skip a lot of content but they practically success on summary/point out the story, nuance and what should be on focus without making people who didn't read the manga confused and still get the intended nuance. this doesn't affect the story but nuance and feeling just a bit different for reader who also read the manga but this one was still in good category. i rate this anime just 1 point lower than the manga unlike this one. |
Luc36Mar 2, 3:17 PM
- - |
Reply to Saimatsu_Fan
Danpmss said:
@Saimatsu_Fan
(Well, this is getting a bit tedious now, so I will be a bit harsher)
1)You can quit with the bad faith argument already, I did not defend censorship lol
I stated that the removal of the content happened to be beneficial to the final product, since Altea's and Köinzell's characterization suffers from that being poorly executed in the first place. If I defended censorship, I'd say that would always be the case and that any sort of similar content should be removed for things to be "better" (which is polar opposite of what I talked about one of my 10/10s (Ishuzoku Reviewers) just now, I'd be complaining if that got any scenes removed, and rejoiced for the scenes added, because it benefits the content in hand, unlike in this case.
You are putting words on my mouth. Me saying that the removal of the erotica benefited the portrayal the author ultimately went with for Altea and Köinzell (he basically completely ignored their sexual interactions ever happened, while at it) is just an observation. We call it Early-Installment Weirdness, and similar to Berserk's (Guts having sex with some random demon in the first page and killing it).
Ubel Blatt suffers from the same thing. It starts trying to gather attention with some Berserk appeal in the first run (volume 0). Then in the second run (volume 1-23), it downscales that edge a whole lot, and change Köinzell's characterization a bit. By the time we reach the end of volume 2, Köinzell (a heroic, compassionate figure) is no longer having sex with pedophiles interested in his kid body long before knowing his real age (quite opposite to his characterization even as early as volume 0, which also has a shotacon woman that sexually assaults him, and which he cuts in half for more reasons than one), nor Altea acts like one ever again, becoming a beacon of hope and respect in the story.
Hard sell when you consider her past actions and how the author is then ignoring what she once was, but hey, the anime fixed that inconsistency by just not having those scenes even happen. Horray!
In short, and hopefully that stays in your head this time:
"Defending censorship" =/= Saying that a specific scene or two being cut ended up making for a better product.
2) Oh my, and isn't that the precise point I'm making in here! In that case you should do the same with Ubel Blatt, and not just use censorship as an excuse, because I doubt you would campaign against your masterpiece Fairy Tail for that same reason (and in that case, again, not only is it an actual Ecchi work, but also far more heavily censored and toned down than this).
Stop being a hypocrite and have some coherence with the way you analyze your own criteria. If I say it adds nothing and you don't lose much by removing those scenes in here, it means you care about those elements as much as I do when it comes to the things you like. You do not care at all.
Let's follow your train of thought here for a second just to point out how ridiculous that argument is:
Danpmss: "This is a really good adaptation. Removing the erotica and toning down the violence in a small scene or two doesn't affect it negatively. Luckily, the anime somehow benefited from these omittions, that's nice."
Saimatsu_Fan: "What a clown! Imagine unironically defending censorship and toning down violence and erotica!"
Also Saimatsu_Fan: "Fairy Tail is a 10/10 anime. Censoring the ecchi, toning down the violence considerably as a whole and even removing characters smoking doesn't affect my score negatively, as I still like it all the same."
Danpmss: "So you are saying you think the censorship doesn't affect it negatively for you and it's still a perfect score of 10/10? How was it again... What a clown! Imagine unironically defending censorship and toning down violence and ecchi lol"
Saimatsu_Fan: "Noooo, you pathetic clown! That's different, because I never said it it did good for Fairy Tail (I just basically said that it was acceptable enough for me to still give it a perfect score despite the censorship anyway, because I like it all the same)!"
Of course you didn't say it was good. Because unlike Ubel Blatt, which lucked out with most of its content removal that actually made for a better experience (especially when it comes to removing repetitive dialogue), Fairy Tail only had to lose with its censorship (significantly less violence meant lower tension in a battle shounen, and censored ecchi scenes means lower appeal to an ecchi series). The violence was barely affected, and the erotica in Ubel Blatt would already disappear shortly after the first sets of chapters either way, and served no purpose other than messing with character arcs and padding content.
My guy, your entire discourse up to this point was "fuck censorship, unless it's something I really like, then it's a 10/10 and the censorship doesn't matter as much". You lost your argument from the point you don't agree with your own absolutes. And yet you claim that the reason why I'm supposedly defending censorship is because I said "well, luckily it ended up working out for the better despite removing content". Had I not say that, it wouldn't really change the fact that nothing of importance was lost. Then what? Would I only then be allowed by your majesty to say that "much like Fairy Tail to you, the censorship changed nothing, and the quality is still pristine without it"?
Here's a new word for your vocabulary, Belief Perseverance.
You are too biased to actually care about censorship being a real problem here, you care about what you believe people are saying is pro-censorship.
Which is the reason why you attacked ME (Ad Hominem), and not my arguments in the post, in the first place LOL
And "Gotcha arguments" have little to do with your lack of reading comprehension in regard to what I'm pointing to. Nobody cares if you gave over 9000 uncensored shows a low rating. That just means the shows are bad in your eyes. Now what's the reason you would give a perfect 10/10 to something that basically a huge representative of everything you are making it out to be a big deal of a bad thing, in this very thread?
You don't care if something you consider a masterpiece/perfect score is a heavily censored product, you would like it all the same.
Now, whether you just wanted to look good by trying calling me out for supposedly defending censorship or not, that I'll leave to people's discretion, including your own and mine. The point is that it was a poorly thought argument that just exposed you as a biased hypocrite by definition of the words.
@Saimatsu_Fan
(Well, this is getting a bit tedious now, so I will be a bit harsher)
1)You can quit with the bad faith argument already, I did not defend censorship lol
I stated that the removal of the content happened to be beneficial to the final product, since Altea's and Köinzell's characterization suffers from that being poorly executed in the first place. If I defended censorship, I'd say that would always be the case and that any sort of similar content should be removed for things to be "better" (which is polar opposite of what I talked about one of my 10/10s (Ishuzoku Reviewers) just now, I'd be complaining if that got any scenes removed, and rejoiced for the scenes added, because it benefits the content in hand, unlike in this case.
You are putting words on my mouth. Me saying that the removal of the erotica benefited the portrayal the author ultimately went with for Altea and Köinzell (he basically completely ignored their sexual interactions ever happened, while at it) is just an observation. We call it Early-Installment Weirdness, and similar to Berserk's (Guts having sex with some random demon in the first page and killing it).
Ubel Blatt suffers from the same thing. It starts trying to gather attention with some Berserk appeal in the first run (volume 0). Then in the second run (volume 1-23), it downscales that edge a whole lot, and change Köinzell's characterization a bit. By the time we reach the end of volume 2, Köinzell (a heroic, compassionate figure) is no longer having sex with pedophiles interested in his kid body long before knowing his real age (quite opposite to his characterization even as early as volume 0, which also has a shotacon woman that sexually assaults him, and which he cuts in half for more reasons than one), nor Altea acts like one ever again, becoming a beacon of hope and respect in the story.
Hard sell when you consider her past actions and how the author is then ignoring what she once was, but hey, the anime fixed that inconsistency by just not having those scenes even happen. Horray!
In short, and hopefully that stays in your head this time:
"Defending censorship" =/= Saying that a specific scene or two being cut ended up making for a better product.
2) Oh my, and isn't that the precise point I'm making in here! In that case you should do the same with Ubel Blatt, and not just use censorship as an excuse, because I doubt you would campaign against your masterpiece Fairy Tail for that same reason (and in that case, again, not only is it an actual Ecchi work, but also far more heavily censored and toned down than this).
Stop being a hypocrite and have some coherence with the way you analyze your own criteria. If I say it adds nothing and you don't lose much by removing those scenes in here, it means you care about those elements as much as I do when it comes to the things you like. You do not care at all.
Let's follow your train of thought here for a second just to point out how ridiculous that argument is:
Danpmss: "This is a really good adaptation. Removing the erotica and toning down the violence in a small scene or two doesn't affect it negatively. Luckily, the anime somehow benefited from these omittions, that's nice."
Saimatsu_Fan: "What a clown! Imagine unironically defending censorship and toning down violence and erotica!"
Also Saimatsu_Fan: "Fairy Tail is a 10/10 anime. Censoring the ecchi, toning down the violence considerably as a whole and even removing characters smoking doesn't affect my score negatively, as I still like it all the same."
Danpmss: "So you are saying you think the censorship doesn't affect it negatively for you and it's still a perfect score of 10/10? How was it again... What a clown! Imagine unironically defending censorship and toning down violence and ecchi lol"
Saimatsu_Fan: "Noooo, you pathetic clown! That's different, because I never said it it did good for Fairy Tail (I just basically said that it was acceptable enough for me to still give it a perfect score despite the censorship anyway, because I like it all the same)!"
Of course you didn't say it was good. Because unlike Ubel Blatt, which lucked out with most of its content removal that actually made for a better experience (especially when it comes to removing repetitive dialogue), Fairy Tail only had to lose with its censorship (significantly less violence meant lower tension in a battle shounen, and censored ecchi scenes means lower appeal to an ecchi series). The violence was barely affected, and the erotica in Ubel Blatt would already disappear shortly after the first sets of chapters either way, and served no purpose other than messing with character arcs and padding content.
My guy, your entire discourse up to this point was "fuck censorship, unless it's something I really like, then it's a 10/10 and the censorship doesn't matter as much". You lost your argument from the point you don't agree with your own absolutes. And yet you claim that the reason why I'm supposedly defending censorship is because I said "well, luckily it ended up working out for the better despite removing content". Had I not say that, it wouldn't really change the fact that nothing of importance was lost. Then what? Would I only then be allowed by your majesty to say that "much like Fairy Tail to you, the censorship changed nothing, and the quality is still pristine without it"?
Here's a new word for your vocabulary, Belief Perseverance.
You are too biased to actually care about censorship being a real problem here, you care about what you believe people are saying is pro-censorship.
Which is the reason why you attacked ME (Ad Hominem), and not my arguments in the post, in the first place LOL
And "Gotcha arguments" have little to do with your lack of reading comprehension in regard to what I'm pointing to. Nobody cares if you gave over 9000 uncensored shows a low rating. That just means the shows are bad in your eyes. Now what's the reason you would give a perfect 10/10 to something that basically a huge representative of everything you are making it out to be a big deal of a bad thing, in this very thread?
You don't care if something you consider a masterpiece/perfect score is a heavily censored product, you would like it all the same.
Now, whether you just wanted to look good by trying calling me out for supposedly defending censorship or not, that I'll leave to people's discretion, including your own and mine. The point is that it was a poorly thought argument that just exposed you as a biased hypocrite by definition of the words.
>Still defends censorship by saying " it made the product better!! "
>calls me a hypocrite over FT despite me never defending the censorship of that show ever
lmao
| @Saimatsu_Fan Wooow, is that really all you are capable of replying? LMAO More one-lines in denial and ignoring the holes in your logic without even trying countering a single thing? Yeah, you might as well just drop the discussion right here, you can't argue for shit (so not much of a discussion really), you may consider going back to /a/. |
|
Reply to Luc36
@Danpmss the reason i don't link to twitter because it's close to none people talking about it, i don't understand why you're using twitter to judge while almost no one talking about it and ignore the one that focused on production. twitter jp also mostly not used for critics but praise or question especially on arts or entertainment. they're mostly only went to something that they like or interest to begin with, unlike in english. that's why you will just find people who support it mostly. This the difference between JP and english comment on nikke.
here on anikore https://www.anikore.jp/anime/14859/
Summary they had 2 points :
1. It's hard to follow for non reader and just watch the anime (fail to adapt because too many skip and can be also because of censored part).
2. Many original reader disappointed and for first time viewer are fine because they don't even know how the original work is. (this opposite of what you feels)
You will find these 2 commonly said there.
Tsuma, shougakuei ni naru also skip a lot of content but they practically success on summary/point out the story, nuance and what should be on focus without making people who didn't read the manga confused and still get the intended nuance. this doesn't affect the story but nuance and feeling just a bit different for reader who also read the manga but this one was still in good category. i rate this anime just 1 point lower than the manga unlike this one.
here on anikore https://www.anikore.jp/anime/14859/
Summary they had 2 points :
1. It's hard to follow for non reader and just watch the anime (fail to adapt because too many skip and can be also because of censored part).
2. Many original reader disappointed and for first time viewer are fine because they don't even know how the original work is. (this opposite of what you feels)
You will find these 2 commonly said there.
Tsuma, shougakuei ni naru also skip a lot of content but they practically success on summary/point out the story, nuance and what should be on focus without making people who didn't read the manga confused and still get the intended nuance. this doesn't affect the story but nuance and feeling just a bit different for reader who also read the manga but this one was still in good category. i rate this anime just 1 point lower than the manga unlike this one.
| @Luc36 I'm still not quite sure what's the point of discussing about what a couple of other people in Japan thinks or not about this nor which of those arguments would make it or break it for what I wrote honestly, but as someone that interacts with said discussions myself (aka, the Japanese side of things, which vastly differ from our own), I feel like I need to expand upon some of the things you are saying. 1- There's an considerably bigger amount of people talking about Ubel Blatt in JP Twitter in any sort of detail than any numbers Anikore and Filmarks. Japanese people just don't discuss as much about anime outside their own circles (multi-person/group chats on LINE, etc...), or dedicated review blog sites (many of which just migrated to blog on twitter either way). When they do, as I said, it's usually in 2ch threads, and there are one in a thousand that actually go in any depth that isn't outright mocked for the effort of analyzing too much, and those usually go for other works that are far more popular than this lol Japanese Twitter is the biggest SNS/place of any kind (outside isolated group chats) to read anime/manga/novel impressions about from the Japanese audience currently. 2- Both Filmmarks and Anikore aren't exactly sites with a huge amount of reviews unless it's a something either extremely popular, or that people have either extremely high and/or low opinions about. Your average non-mainstream anime will barely ever get any people to do as much as to add them to their ratings/watch list (and that number of people is already quite low for anything that isn't actually popular/controversial/panned/cult. Anikore has 14 people rating it and Filmmarks has 19 (both with less than a hundred users even marking as watching/shelved), and only a number of which actually wrote any sort of elaborate thoughts on it . But if you also read Anikore reviews however, they are at the very least more detailed in their impressions than in there (despite a big portion of them dropping it 1-3 episodes in, and with a pretty average score). And for the people keeping up with it despite them at times being quite harsh with the removal of naughty bits (saying for example that they were removed improperly to the setup they were supposed to follow, likely in reference to the ambiguous approach I mentioned, Altea's wanting little boy sex in exchange for smuggling, and the anime barely implying that being the case), they still rated the story and characters pretty highly (Satelight's limited quality is usually the biggest point of critique for Japanese viewers, they do care a LOT about that). I do agree with this same person saying that it was a bit redundant to cover "The Seven Heroes" in the info-corner of EP7, when it's basically what EP1 started with, but yeah, just for you to see the contrast to what they actually analyze about (like how the font being used for exposition text feel odd, criticizing things like being too panel-to-screen faithful when compared to the manga, which imply an unimaginative storyboard that doesn't take full advantage of the medium... which is a given in a budget limited production such as Satelight's lol). This kind of budget production is considered "passionless" for a lot of people in Japan, since it feels like they are doing the bare minimum to animate it to screen. But as I said first and foremost, I think that's an unfair assessment. This is definitely the bigger amounts of effort I've ever seen from a mainly Satelight production other than Sakugan and Noien, it's just that theirs is a very low bar. They are competent workers, but they are much better as an outsource studio for fully committed productions (they REALLY shine with backgrounds/scenery and modelling, in particular). Even then, the general sentiment of the 14-19 people that decided to even be vocal enough to comment about this in both places is not what the general reaction really is. For that, right now we mostly have JP Twitter and only God knows how many isolated LINE chats(or alike) in which some otaku circle of friends/fans discuss in private. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- And in any case, my point was to detail why an impression of this being nonsensical without volume 0 is overstated. It has its flaws, but not to that extent. And I'm pinpointing what was skipped and discussing what was ultimately presented. The only thing that feels a bit convoluted so far was Aht's commenting about Koinzell only killing her brother because there was no other way (context is that her brother was turned into a killing chimera monster, and Koinzell mercy-killed him), since the thing we ultimately get from the anime is: "Koinzell is a nice compassionate guy -> Aht appears hunting him down for revenge (it's just as sudden as in the manga btw, it's messy in there, too lol) saying he killed her brother -> Koinzell is down in the dumps because killing the "heroes" could just bring misery for the people he once swore to protect, because they are now perceived as saints, going as far as offering his head to her if she wanted -> Aht's react to him mercy-killing chimera made by villain out of innocents and his ultimatum about how much that guy was scum ->Aht's say that her revenge seeking was wrong, since he actually saved her brother by killing him" Meaning, viewers have a lot to theorize about what was that all about without volume 0's context. They can safely assume that Aht was at one point in friendly terms with him because they seem to share history, but as for her brother, it could be a character beyond salvation in more ways than one, which Koinzell felt like he had to kill. That can be solved with a single flashback to volume 0 about that, which funnily enough was actually recapped in the manga (and time will tell why are they saving so many of these recaps for later, because they also very specifically skipped ones for Rozen too). In short, the nuances can still be understood just fine if one pays enough attention to what is being presented and don't just dismiss it outright. Many manga including this one have a lot of moments in which some character actions made no sense til you get context for them later, retroactively complementing the story beats (which is what I think this rearranging is all about, perhaps they are planning to outright adapt volume 0 as an OVA, too). Whether the Japanese or international audience agrees with what I propose is not really relevant either way, unless you may want to introduce those as counterarguments to my proposition, of course. By all means in that case, challenge my points. This is what the discussion is all about, and we may just find I'm wrong about something I said really, who knows. This was never about whether people actually loves or hates something, and the entire point of this post was to display that the people that hates it for the removal of certain things are overreacting to the significance of them compared to what did get adapted quite properly). It's also a general analysis to what will make it or break it depending on what they will decide to go for as the adaptation keeps on going. My general consensus is that, so far, it's definitely imperfect, but pretty coherent and well adapted if you analyze the content side by side. And that even if they are leaving out volume 0 content in many points, they give enough background (constant recaps in the manga's soft reboot for all the related characters that are central to the plot) for you to have an idea on what the character relations may be (and which will be well composed for as long as they deliver that information in the future, Glenn stuff skipped being only relevant in one certain chapter recapping vol 0's Aescheritt's flashback coming up soon, and then being mostly relevant only much later down the line). |
DanpmssMar 2, 5:07 PM
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