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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Merge and redirect (probably to List of fictitious Jews). If consensus later removes it from there as well, then probably delete as the consensus does not seem to favor an independent article. FT2 (Talk | email) 01:56, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

On the face of the AFD contributions, consensus is split fairly evenly between merge and delete, with a few keeps. There is a significant majority for delete the article (ie, either of delete or merge), on the basis of listcruft or WP:NOT an indiscriminate list. Both delete and merge imply removal of this independent article. This implies a consensus is achieved that there isn't justification for an independent article. However, there is also a significant number (around 50%) of keep the information (ie, keep or merge), implying a significant view that the information is considered useful and appropriate, and a view that it should be preserved somehow either by keeping or merging. (Note - Argument by analogy is not appropriate for AFD, each article is judged on its own merits as per Ssbohio.)
Taking these two together, it seems there is a communal consensus overall: - that the list is considered overall sufficiently encyclopedic or notable to keep the information, but not sufficiently important for its own independent article. It thefore looks like consensus is that the list should probably be merged into some other more relevant article, and this one deleted or redirected. Looking at the proposed target articles suggested, I'm inclined to agree that List of fictional Jews is a more useful location to try, than List of LGBT Jews, on the basis that fiction/nonfiction seems a more fundamental distinction than straight/gay. Or, as per one comment somewhere, it 'muddies the water' if fictional Jews are added to an article mainly listing real Jews.


List of fictional Jewish LGBT characters

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List of fictional Jewish LGBT characters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - (View log)

Although I am the article "creator" (albeit after splitting it off) and also the nominator, please do not use this as a reason to consider speedy deletion. I feel the article should have a full chance to have a consensus formed. The list is a valid list, but I feel it does not pass any of the criteria for inclusion in Wikipedia. I split it from the original article, a genuinely notable list, because it diluted that article with ephemera, and did so after flagging a possible split on that talk page (no responses after 8 days). Although I am nominating the list my nomination is Neutral and a request for a consensus to be formed Fiddle Faddle 14:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete all lists of x who are y and z. Else we have 'fictional Buddhist and short' 'fictional socialist and red-haired' 'non-fiction atheists who had tea with Jonny Cash' etc. --Docg 21:40, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment Slippery slope is a logical fallacy insofar as each article stands or fall on its own merits, and what other article(s) may or may not be created doesn't bear on whether this article should be deleted or not. Further, this contribution identifies no basis in policy that supports deletion of this material. --Ssbohio 06:10, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • Well maybe. However I'm uncertain what this provides that existing lists don't. Is there something unique about fictional Jewish LGBT people that can't be dealt with on existing lists of fictional Jews or LGBT?--T. Anthony 06:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        • The question arises: is this a set of Jews for the list of fictional LGBT characters, or an LGBT list within the list of fictional Jews? Even if the article lacks sufficient legs as an independent work, it is still a collection of content that would otherwise be duplicated in other lists. --Ssbohio 00:31, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep or Merge Unless there's a direct way to select articles at the intersection of the three sets involved (fictional characters, Jewish people, & LGBT people), no better method of organizing these articles exists. As no deletion vote has cited a basis in policy, and I am unaware of any method for selecting the intersection of multiple categories, I must endorse keeping it. --Ssbohio 06:10, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment/Question You make a valid point about the intersection. Is the list itself of sufficient "everything" that it warrants a place here? The List of Fictional Characters coudl easily be modified or footnotes used to signify non statistical majority sexuality of one so chose. Fiddle Faddle 07:15, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Based on some of the contributions to the discussion, it seems that merging the content would be an acceptable alternative, as long as the content gets incorporated into all relevant lists (fictional characters, LGBT Jews, fictional LGBT characters, fictional Jews, etc). However, I still see the maintenance of a separate page that can be included by links within all the aforementioned groups as a more common-sense solution, especially considering that Wikipedia isn't a paper encyclopedia. --Ssbohio 00:31, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep or merge and redirect back to List of LGBT Jews. "LGBT" and "Jewish" is a little bit more important of an intersection, even for fictional characters, than "Buddhist" and "short." Otto4711 14:29, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment it does not belong in a list of real people. It devalues that list by virtue of the characters being fictional. If the List of LGBT Jews is an important list then it should not be devalued with fictional folk. If it has a place, surely it is in a list of fictional people, annotated that the character is set out to be Jewish? Fiddle Faddle 15:06, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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